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21 October 2012

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GregB

It appears there is an effort to scuttle any efforts at negotiation that may have occurred during the Obama administration.

I wonder if anyone here can locate the stunning comments from Mitt Romney during one of the GOP primary debates where he openly admits that he will outsource foreign policy to Netanyau.

It was a back and forth about supporting Israel, possibly a Mitt/Gingrich exchange. Romney said: "I will call my old friend Bibi Netanyahu and I will ask him...Is it good for you if I say this or is it good for you if I say that..

It was the most grotesque admission of total abdication to a foreign power I have ever heard and yet it seems to have been disappeared down the memory hole.

Needless to say, as little as I think of the Obama's administration Middle East foreign policy, I can only imagine Romney and his endless shifting opinions that always give towards whatever he thinks benefits him most will be the equivalent of putting Avigdor Lieberman in charge of the state department.

Tony

"No limits on building in E. Jerusalem ". The Israeli's plan all along and that is why there never was any intention of a peace accord with Palestinians.

jdledell

Most Americans need a geography lesson to properly understand what Israel means by an undivided capital in Jerusalem. For centuries until 1967 Jerusalem was basically the Old city plus a small circular portion of land to the East along with about half of what is now considered as West Jerusalem. After 1967 Israel took control of a major portion of the West Bank and combined it with an expanded West Jerusalem to call the entire area Jerusalem. This, in effect, tripled the size of traditional Jerusalem and this was codified into law in 1980.

The new boundries have nothing to do with the concept of a capital city, it was done for one reason only - to prevent the expansion and encroachment of Palestinians areas to the city. Thus, Jerusalem's borders extend to the historical city limits of Bethlehem to the south and Ramallah to the north. Israel then dotted the area with new Jewish settlements to solidify their hold on the land - Gilo, Har Homa, Pisgat Ze'ev, Ramot Allon, French Hill etc. The expansion of Gilo announced in the last few days will be downhill and virtually within a stone's throw of Bethlehem's sacred sites.

Furthermore, there is a proposal that has been floating around the Knesset for at least 5 years to further expand Jerusalem to incorporate Ma'ale Adumin, Givat Ze'ev, Betar Illit etc. This will double Jerusalem's borders over the previous tripling. Theoretically, this will extend Jerusalem's borders all the way to Jericho.

There is no question Pat is right, this Israeli government has no intention of allowing Palestinians anything more than isolated "autonomous reservations" to live on. I currently sincerely doubt any Israeli government now, or in the future, will ever allow a real Palestinian state. The two state solution is dead. Eventually, the arabs will reclaim the territory of Israel. It may take them 100 years or 1000 years but it will happen. The past is prologue - it has happened before to the Jews and it will happen again. As Zionist Jew and a dual Israeli citizen, this makes me very unhappy but it's our own damn fault.

We've never figured out that assimilation does not mean we have to abandon our culture and religion but with only 15 million of us in the world we've got to figure out how to live with the other 6 billion humans in this world.

Tunde

Immediately Dov Weisglas mis-spoke I knew the jig was up. Imho, any US president that wastes valuable time in office trying to broker a 'peace' obviously doesn't believe in time management. Isn't the Palestinian state called Jordan ?

jdledell

As long as I'm in the mood to rant about things Israeli, here is a proposal I would like to see some brave soul in Congress make - restrict or eliminate dual citizenship. Since I hold such credentials, I understand the implications of such a move.

I was granted Israeli citizenship when I lived there in the 1980's. I never gave it much thought at the time but welcomed the convenience when traveling since I breezed through airport entry controls whenever I returned. For business purposes I stationed myself in Israel for convenience in traveling to various countries I dealt with for business. However, I never considered myself Israeli and thus have never registered and voted for any Israeli political office. I have always considered myself American and thus welcomed my company's transfer back to the USA.

However, I know literally thousands of Israelis who vote in both the US and Israel. A very high percentage of these same dual citizens never pay US taxes, as required by law. US citizens must renounce their citizenship in order to be excused from paying US taxes on worldwide income. Thus we have a situation of "Representation without Taxation".

Since these people have made aliyah, by the time the IRS catches up to them their old US addresses are stale and the trail to their new homes in Israel is so stale that the IRS gives up tracking them.

The web sites set up to facilitate Israelis to vote in the US to further Israel's interest make it abundantly clear which country is most important.

http://ivoteisrael.com/learn-more/faqs

turcopolier

jdleddel

What you say about breezing through customs, immigration and security is interesting. The security creeps always ask if you have friends and family there. This is clearly designed to screen for gentiles. They deny that but it is true. Ah, well, I have made my last trip to the unholy land. pl

turcopolier

tunde

"Isn't the Palestinian state called Jordan?" You are behind the times. The Zionists stopped saying that when Jordan signed a treaty with Israel. pl

Matthew

Jdledell: MJ Rosenberg has written that some American synagogues are starting to shutter the Israeli flags because they are considered "controversal." Any insight into this statement?

Matthew

Col: He's a actually frontrunning. The Zionists are saying it again...at least in the commentary section of Haaretz and the JPost.

Additionally, the GOI is attempting to erase the Palestinian refugee problem by "balance." Each Mizrahi Jewish Israeli will be considered a refugee to equal the number of Palestinian refugees.

Personal note: I have not problem with calling any Israeli a "refugee" if indiviual families were actually driven out of Arab countries. As refugees, I also support their right of return to whatever country expelled them. However, that is utterly irrelevant to Palestinian refugee rights.

Matthew

Col: I'm glad I visited my wife's family in Bethlehem and East Jersusalem in the 1990's. Like Woody Hayes refusing to buy even food and drink in Michigan, I now can't abide the thought of doing anything that helps the Israeli economy--until an independent Palestine arises next door.

Unfortunately, that means my children won't ever get to see it. Of course, for some of us card-carrying RC's, the real Holy Land is across the Tiber and only a short trip from Leonardo Da Vinci airport.

jdledell

Matthew - Perhaps in some of the most liberal Reform temples this might be true. However, I question whether any Orthodox shul in America has taken down the Israeli flag and the same with Conservative congregations. I attend several Reform services that a pretty liberal and none of them have "shuttered" anything Israeli. Maybe, MJ visited a synagogue in some place like San Francisco but I know of no such place on the East Coast.

YT

Col. sir,

The palestinians seem to be in a similar predicament as the kurds.

Their other "arab bros." don't seem too f**kin' keen on havin' them anywhere near them.

Is there a clear explanation for this?

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