"A republic if you can keep it..."

Republics may or may not be democratic.  They may be more or less democratic.  They are not monarchies, although monarchies may be democratic.  My father delighted in telling people (often me) that the United States was not a true democracy.  He considered true democracies to be governments ruled by mobs of the ignorant.  He said that the United States was a federal republic with a limited form of democracy.  For him the constitution of the United States was the bulwark of this federal republic against mob rule.  On this, he and I are still in agreement although he is long gone.

We have always had a certain element in the population who want unlimited democracy in the US, a democracy run on the basis of an even more generous franchise, abolition of the electoral college, reduction of the state governments to administrative districts along the line of French departments, one law code for the whole country, and allocation of senators by state population size.

The 24/7 news media are in favor of most or all of these things.  Their incessant and usually mindless propaganda for their favorite "hobby horses," drives the ignorant sheeple toward the slaughter pens set up on electoral days.  The advertising industry functions in this process in the same way that sheep dogs move the mutton toward the knife.

The American people (if there is such a thing) have been endlessly dumbed-down in schools where "all the children are exceptional" except for the truly exceptional who attend different schools that are either private or resident within public schools.  The rest have grown to something called adulthood on a diet of; action movies, reality TV,  social media half thoughts, hip-hop, etc.  As a result the average potential elector has almost no span of attention, little knowledge of anything but the trivia of their daily lives and an inability to find almost anything on a map.

These people are ripe for exploitation by a regime that could be modeled on Orwell's "1984."  (He was a British author who lived in the 20th Century)

We no longer deserve a republic.  IMO an election in which Romney wins the national popular vote and BHO the electoral college would be intensely entertaining.  We had  that in 2000 until SCOTUS spoiled the fun.  Pete Williams, the NBC courts reporter correctly says that such a thing would not be a "constitutional crisis."  It would simply be the system at work.  pl

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_United_States_presidential_candidates,_2012

 

Comments

[Babak Makkinejad]

Orwell was a policeman and warden in South Africa - he had ne delusions about mankind.

[E L]

"Democracy is the theory that the common people know what they want, and deserve to get it good and hard." —H. L. Mencken

[Kyle Pearson]

Seeing your post, here, makes me a bit frightened, Col.

Many of my generation -- at least, those that i grew up with, and knew well -- have held these thoughts since we were in high school. Some have retreated into money, some have retreated into art, and some have retreated into their community. A couple fearlessly advanced into the military, too - we still call them friends. One is a Colonel or Lt. Col. in the Air Force; as i understand, he's flying drone missions over Afghanistan, these days. The other is an Army Engineer, who retreated into New Hampshire following "Clinton's Wars", as he calls it. I grew up with both of them, and loved them each.

What i want is a retreat from the wars. You have always seemed to want something very close to that.

What you seem to be saying, here, is that worse is inevitable.

[par4]

The American people (if there is such a thing) have been endlessly dumbed-down in schools where "all the children are exceptional" except for the truly exceptional who attend different schools that are either private or resident within public schools. The rest have grown to something called adulthood on a diet of; action movies, reality TV, social media half thoughts, hip-hop, etc. As a result the average potential elector has almost no span of attention, little knowledge of anything but the trivia of their daily lives and an inability to find almost anything on a map. I agree but this is what the Republic has wrought.

[turcopolier]

par4

No, not the republic. Excessive democracy hath wrought it. pl

[turcopolier]

kp

Yes. worse is inevitable in a system governed by the selfish and voted on by the ignorant. pl

[Walrus]

So Col. Lang, you don't agree with Lincoln? All of the people can be fooled all of the time? Isn't this the sin of despair?

[John]

“The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter.”
― Winston Churchill

[kao_hsien_chih]

This is a quote by James Madison that very few people repeat. Perhaps they should, more often:

"But I go on this great republican principle, that the people will have virtue and intelligence to select men of virtue and wisdom. Is there no virtue among us? If there be not, we are in a wretched situation. No theoretical checks--no form of government can render us secure. To suppose that any form of government will secure liberty or happiness without any virtue in the people, is a chimerical idea."

(at Virginia Ratifying Convention, June, 1788)

[gallid]

A republic? A democracy? Perhaps what we have is neither but a nation governed by a two party system which manipulates those "mobs of the ignorant" for its own perpetuation and benefit.

[shepherd]

He was in Burma.

[fred]

They can run, but they can't hide. Reality can and will catch up to them.

[WickerMan]

pl said: "Worse is inevitable in a system governed by the selfish and voted on by the ignorant"

On the ignorant and selfish:
"Perhaps their lives have no cosmic significance, but they have feelings. They can hurt."
-- Robert A. Heinlein, "Double Star"

On the purpose of hierarchy:
"In the long run, a hierarchical society is only possible on a basis of poverty and ignorance."
-- George Orwell, "1984"

[JohnH]

Somewhere between the mob and a few aristocrats/oligarchs there is a delicate balance. With enormous wealth now concentrated in a few hundred hands, we are tipping toward domination by the few.

At some point the mob will respond.

I only wish that oligarchs would be more judicious in their pursuit of wealth and power, but that is not part of human nature.

[turcopolier]

walrus

It seems that all of the ignorant can be fooled all of the time. Lincoln? I spent so much time with him in writing STT that I came to like him. Nevertheless, he was just another nationalist politician. He was more skilled than most. The Gettysburg address is a good example of his skills. "A new birth of liberty?" That was said while he was waging total war against a part of the country that wanted to be "left alone" Yes, it is the sin of despair, but an active despair. pl

[turcopolier]

John H

Ah, but my whole piece is a paean to that golden age when sturdy burghers and yeoman farmers backed virtuous citizens in their exercize of limited power. pl

[WP]

The fundamental problem with this election as well as those since 2002 is that we, the People, have created a voting system that has no integrity. No one, other than the small clique of persons who programmed the machines know how the voting machines "count" or not.

http://www.harpers.org/archive/2012/10/hbc-90008943
http://www.bbvforums.org/forums/messages/1954/1954.html
http://blackboxvoting.com/s9/

It should concern us all that Mitt Romney's son apparently contols the voting machine vendor that controls votin in part or all of 12 states.

Bradblog.org reports that "a bunch of Bain Capital investors, led by Mitt Romney's son Tagg, via a company called H.I.G. Capital (believed to stand for Hart Intercivic Group) took over control of Hart Intercivic, the nation's third largest voting machine company, in 2011.
The Austin-based Hart company, according to VerifiedVoting.org's database, supplies electronic voting machines and paper ballot tabulators that will be used to tally votes in the Presidential Election this year in all or parts of California, Colorado, Hawaii, Illinois, Indiana, Kentucky, Ohio, Oklahoma, Oregon, Pennsylvania, Texas, Virginia and Washington."

http://www.bradblog.com/?p=9651#more-9651

Also, a very troubling and entertaining novel about the whole situation can be found on Amazon. Cassandra Chanting by Anonymous, an insider election official who clearly knows the the technical workings of the machines. http://www.amazon.com/Cassandra-Chanting-ebook/dp/B001QFZP0S/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1350935535&sr=8-1&keywords=Cassandra+chanting

We should all be scared for our "Republic" in whatever democratic form it exists, because its election process may fatally be broken and corrupt.

Truly, we will never know who really wins the 2012 Presidential election because the outcome is simply unknowable.

I wonder which side will be most effective at hacking the machines?

[WP]

Another link for my previous post. Greg Palast has been documenting the problem for years.

http://www.amazon.com/Billionaires-Ballot-Bandits-Election-ebook/dp/B008EDPP00

[Walrus]

The General tone, I think, of Col. Langs postulate that an Orwellian worse is probably to come was apparent to anyone looking at the country from outside since at least as early as 9/11.

Some of us, the mildly paranoid and cynical, were alarmed by the PNAC paper "Rebuilding Americas Defences" that postulated that, following the defeat of the USSR, America should NOT declare a "peace dividend" and disarm, but maintain its military abilities to aggressively pursue its "interests".

I was more alarmed when I started hearing the word "Homeland" used in Administration speak since it has exactly the same negative appeal to foreigners as "Fatherland" and "Motherland" has to Americans - and it's use is evil and done for exactly the same purposes as Hitler and Stalin.

What has followed is the development of a surviellance and military state containing technology that exceeds Orwells wildest nightmares.

Then there are fusion centres, the blurring of the distinction between military and police. Movement controls via the "no fly" list - soon to be the "no train" list. immigrant control checkpoints on highways and so on. And of course the Patriot and similar acts that criminalise dissent.

All to keep you safe from illegal immigrants and islamic terrorists...............

But the worst stain of all is torture.

Orwell:

"’I betrayed you,’ she said baldly.
’I betrayed you,’ he said.

She gave him another quick look of dislike.

’Sometimes,’ she said, ’they threaten you with something something you can’t stand up to, can’t even think about. And then you say, ”Don’t do it to me, do it to somebody else, do it to So-and-so.” And perhaps you might pretend, afterwards, that it was only a trick and that you just said it to make them stop and didn’t really mean it. But that isn’t true.At the time when it happens you do mean it. You think there’s no other way of saving yourself, and you’re quite
ready to save yourself that way. You want it to happen to the other person. You don’t give a damn what they suffer. All you care about is yourself."

Read the Bybee memo and weep for whats already happened and for what is coming.

http://news.findlaw.com/nytimes/docs/doj/bybee80102mem.pdf

[rjj]

Nostalgia. Remember Hart Intercivic provided Florida with one of those two completely confusing and confounding ballots [butterfly ???] in the 2000 election.

[elkern]

I dread the possibility of another questionable election. Very different problems arise, depending on who "wins".

If Obama wins and the right wing questions the results, some of the crazier ones will shoot people. I'd just be scared, particularly for Obama & his family. With the hate that's been whipped up against Obama, it's easy to imagine this outcome even if he wins in an undeniable landslide.

If Romney wins - like GWB - a questionable election, I'd have a hard time respecting the results. The Republican Party has intentionally passed phony "voter fraud" legislation which will supress voting by people too poor to own a car. Too many of the corporations which make & sell computerized voting machines have suspicious ties to the Republican party.

Some of us remember 2000 and would have a hard time accepting it again. But we're generally not well armed; I'd expect inner-city riots & a renewal of the Occupy thing (bigger, but no more effective).

[Ben]

"IMO an election in which Romney wins the national popular vote and BHO the electoral college would be intensely entertaining. We had that in 2000 until SCOTUS spoiled the fun." I thought we had that after, not before, SCOTUS spoiled the fun by stopping the FL recount. Gore'd already won the popular vote.

[mbrenner]

I wish to suggest a different tack. At its core is the proposition that the greatest threat to our Republic stems from the irresponsibility of our elites - espcially political elites on whose sufferance other elites are able to inflcit calamity on us, e.g. the financial elites.

The mass of citizens today are most distinguished by their inert condition. Very few engage in public life by any means for any purpose. That passivity combined with their ignorance does create opportunities for exploitation - in theory. In fact, I know of only one case in which a substantial segment of the mass has been aroused by demagogues - the Tea Party phenomenon. Let's be aware that even that movement was underwritten and manipulated by a bunch of right wing billionaires whose own agenda was by no means populist. They succeeded in channeling anger over financial shenanigans from Wall Street to Washingon - with Obama being an accessory to that happening.

Overall, there is a striking disparity between popular sentiment, as measured by opinion surveys, and what prevails in our government. The right wing Republican House is out of step with the public on 80% of the issues at the top of their obstructionist agenda. Will they be held accountable next month? NO. Why? Look at the media elite and look at the Democratic Party elite who are well to the right of Richard Nixon across the board (Including civil liberties).They sold out long ago.

[Augustin L]

The republic has been in a state of agony
for a long time.Case in point, tonight's
presidential reality TV show is brought to
you courtesy of Bud light(Anheuser-Busch)
and the gaming industry!, the partial commission
on presidential debates is financed by these
upstanding corporate citizens.Those who wish to
know more about this travesty of democracy can read
a well written book by George Farah, No Debate:
How the Republican and Democratic Parties Secretly
Control the Presidential Debates.The current symptoms
of decline are those commonly exhibited during the fall
of great powers. The oligarchs have looted the country
to the tune of 12 trillion dollars. Now since the
derivatives will eventually implode they intend to complete the leverage buyout of the country and restructure the governing institutions via stealth organizations like ALEC. They mistakenly think that
a panopticon surveillance state backed by 64 drone bases and silent kill weaponry will do the job of pacifying
the plebs, they are sadly mistaken.

Btw, should Bishop Romney become president will he empathize with the lumpen american gentiles? What is the white house to a hedge fund hyena in comparison to the celestial room ? Probably just an old building where business transactions are made.

Behind the veil,the celestial room:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6udew9axmdM&feature=player_embedded

[William R. Cumming]

Power is not given but taken! It has been taken from the American people by the unelected power brokers in the USA! They are not captialists but corporate socialists manipulating the system for the benfit of themselves personally although sometimes masked by other organiszations. Some disguise themselves in Clerical Robes!