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13 September 2012

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Clifford Kiracofe

Information op seems possible if not plausible.

1. More details on the production of the film are needed to include its financing sources, production facilities used, and post-production.

2. More details are needed as to Morris Sadek, an Egyptian Copt emigre to the US who reportedly had his Egyptian citizenship revoked last year. For example, does Sadek have contacts and connections official or unnofficial in Israel and what about contacts with pro-Israel organizations in the US?

3. More details are needed as to how the YouTube film trailer was brought to the attention of extremist media personalities in Egypt conveniently at a time around 911. Apparently this triggered further dissemination of the trailer and news about the trailer which incited the rioting and violence.

4. Egyptian authorities barred entry to 9 Egyptian Copts including Sadek as of 12 September. One would expect US authorities to find these 9 of some interest. Perhaps the US Attorney General should contact his Egyptian counterpart for information and leads.

" CAIRO: Egypt’s attorney General Abdel Maged Mahmoud has put the names of 9 expatriate Coptic Christian Egyptians as well as American controversial anti-Islam church leader Terry Jones on a persona non-grata list barring them from entering Egypt.

The 9 Copts include Morris Sadek, a notorious figure known for his virulent attacks on Islam, Priest Morqos Aziz, Esmat Zelgah, Nabil Besadeh, Ehab Yaqoub, Jack Attalah, Nahed Metwally, Ellia Basily and Adel Riyad.

They were put on the list after cases were filed against them for allegedly participating in the hate campaigns against Islam and Muslims, according to the Attorney General’s office.

“A team of prosecutors at the high national security was formed to look into the reports and the accusations of insulting Islam and promoting extreme ideas with the aim of raising sectarian tension and insulting holy religions,” said Mahmoud in a statement released on Wednesday.

The Christians will be arrested if they attempt to arrive at any Egyptian port of entry.

The prosecutor’s office said they are also investigating reports filed against them regarding what they have published on social media websites insulting Islam and the Prophet Mohamed. According to the cases against them, they took part in distributing the anti-Islam film that depicts the Prophet as a pedophile and homosexual."

http://www.bikyamasr.com/77359/egypt-bars-9-expatriate-coptic-christians-from-entering-country/

5. Did the YouTube trailer assist those behind the attack on our Embassy in Libya by creating an opportune psychological climate and street demonstrators as cover? Did this terrorist group have some advance notice of the extremist Egyptian media personality's denunciation of the trailer? Did this influence the operational plans of the terrorist group in Libya?

The beaver

The Arabic version came to be only in September even though the English version was available for awhile.
Read up on the timeline and on the agenda of Morris Sadek
You can find how he promoted it on his Twitter account and Facebook account (I am not going to publish it here)

turcopolier

jr786

There are as many Islams as there are Muslims. You know that. To say they are "illiterate" because they do not share your ijma' is illiterate. pl

turcopolier

CK

"Information op seems possible if not plausible" Why is it not plausible? Is it because you do not have enough specifics as yet? That seems to be pedantry. pl

r whitman

Is there any connection with this story and the previous absurdity of a Texas used car dealer with the help of Mexican drug dealers trying to asassinate the Saudi ambassador to the US. There is a lot of fantasy fiction in both.

jr 786

No, I'm not illiterate. I also know there is a hadith connected to this. In any case, there is little to no religous ground to this latest sense of affrontedness experienced by my co-religionists. In this little corner of the Muslim world where I reside, there has been little to no concern about the wankings of Western filmmakers.

What I do perceive is how readily some people pounce on anything they can use to re-organized Muslim thinking past the previous limitations of race, ethnicity or nationalism. Regardless of relative religous fervor or observance, everybody finds this offensive, but far less, say, than the images of Muslim women having wine thrown at them by israeli settlers that routinely make the rounds during Ramadan.

There's a project at work here to unite the not so religous Muslims with the social and cultural concerns of the rigorously religous minority. I think people should pay attention to that.

The beaver

CK

Just look for Sadek Twitter account and his FB page in cache ( he pulled it on Wednesday) and you will have your answes.

turcopolier

jr786

As you know but many here still do not, there is no hierarchy in Islam, any Islam. You don't like the conception of Islam held by the jihadi and mob people but that is really meaningless because God does not talk to you every day and tell you what he really wants. your Islam is the product of consnsus among some group of Muslims with whom you agree. As for a hadith, there are countless hadiths variously interpreted. pl

Charles I

Clifford, hello, hope you & the Ducati are well. I have missed you here.

to repeat myself in response to all asking who, what state actor, why, my comment from the previous thread may be apropos.

You don't even need a state or an institutional actor anymore. There is no Christian Zionist Politburo; there are many streams of wealthy whacked out ingenious and personable nabobs at the heart of civil society busily constructing a Dominion of Christian Capitalism. All connected to and relating to various other foreign fellows and foes.

They are able to harness, wield and focus enormous amounts of secular, intellectual, economic, political moral and religious energies with sustained discipline over generations, with access to the latest media technology and sundry levers of power. Not a vote amongst them.

They are the substance of books like Clifford Kiracofe's Dark Crusade, Jeff Sharlett's The Family, another I've touted here written by the disaffected son of founder the L'Arche movement in Switzerland, as well of course many others dealing with Jewish and Muslim actors.

Countries are just their workspace, and it has very little to do with governance, politics and international relations as we conceive them.

Or it could be Chinese - who don't lecture on human rights - just flipping the Arabs at an opportune hinge of history.

Many hands far apart pulling together unbeknownst to the whiole.

Charles I

Tell us more

Charles I

So is what Sadek was promoting the allegedly original Coptic persecution story or the Innocence of Muslims overdub, this seems to be just the murkiest thing, take a whole firm of articling students to chart/timeline this one out.

Seeing as I'm still at the Vegetable Patch, I look forward to seeing what er, we, come up with.

LeaNder

yes, Augustin, I was waiting for the devil to enter your lines at some point. Can you give us your sources or is it all in the bible? Revelations? If so, who told you to read it that way?

LeaNder

Michael Collins Piper?

Cliffiord Kiracofe

pl, I intended to convey that it was plausible and was possible.

Chs1, Ducati is happy and just did 7000 miles (partly through Canada) on the BMW.

Beaver, ok, thanks.

LeaNder

trooper, you should follow all of Adam's links, they "always" are worthwhile to follow. I know, he does not make it easy, since he does not easily connect them to single words or phrases as is the internet standard.

This is the relevant one:
http://www.theatlanticwire.com/global/2012/09/egyptian-outrage-peddler-who-sent-anti-islam-youtube-clip-viral/56826/

LeaNder

Sorry, TWG, it made me so mad, I could have saved my breath. ;)

Who was it, that reported from the ground in Syria on this list, is he well?

I can't help, for whatever reason this reminds me of his comment that he did not feel too secure in the masses handling weapons without the necessary training.

The beaver

Charles

Google his name "Morris Sadek" - everything on the first page will tell about the person.

Walrus

If the reports of at least Two of the actors are correct, the producer and director of the film took pains to conceal its true content from its actors. That tells us that it's makers knew the destructive power of its payload.

That it was spoken in English tells us nothing in particular, just that it was made in America. it would be very interesting to find out who dubbed it into Arabic.

Payload delivery via English dialogue failed. So someone tried again and succeeded.

I would very much like to know if this film has been brought to the attention of any other imams whatever in other countries and by who.


My guess is that this is a project of the fringe dominionist crowd - the church persecuted nuts, they think they can spark Armageddon.


Since I live close by 200 million Indonesian Muslims, I would like to see the producers of this vile little package incarcerated for a very long time, or perhaps delivered, living, to Saudi Arabia.

turcopolier

walrus

Perhaps you could stake them out as bait for Tasmanian Devils. I saw "The Hunter "recently." pl

turcopolier

Walrus

Can the Indonesians swim? In re the Suez Canal, the law I mentioned is the Constantinople Convention. If they want to scuttle a oouple of ships in the canal, that would be creative. It looks to me as though BHO is going to win handily. This is astounding given the state of unemployment. Joe Scarborough called Romney a "flawed candidate." May Moroni heed these words. Houseman next time. pl

Tyler

So even though its Muslims losing their shit, its still the fault of those evil Christians?

How convienient. I remember after Pussy Riot defiled the sacrament of the holiest church in Russian Orthodoxy how the Russian Orthodox community across the world started blowing up embassies and..

Wait. That didn't happen. Huh.

turcopolier

tyler

"It don't matter. It don't mean nuthin'." Did you ever see Martin Blank's explanation to "Debbie" of his "moral flexiibity" in "Grosse Point Blank." I have tried to live by that gospel as well as that in "Hopscotch." Istaghfur b'illah. pl

Babak Makkinejad

The English version plainly is mocking the Prophet and Khadijah - you only need to be familiar with Muslim history of Prophet's life; there is no ambiguity there at all.

The English dubbing, as I stated before, is by a person who is native Hebrew speaker.

The Arabic is Egyptian.

Tyler

Sir,

No I have not. I remember that expression though from "Hamburger Hill" and have heard and used its sister saying "It is what it is" over and over again.

Reading up on Grosse Point Blank, I think I can understand where you are coming from though.

turcopolier

tylare

Watch the movie. pl

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