« Michael Gordon, Andrea Mitchell and the "war" against Obama | Main | A great arrogance revealed to all. »

28 September 2012

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

The Twisted Genius

I can see you had a good, long conversation with the gentlemen from Virginia last night. I pray you had adequate shelter from the rain.

Brad Ruble

I understand,in a community, the conversation that takes place about a statue like this. These kinds of conversations are a healthy way to discuss and refresh our memories about issues we may think don't concern us. Or worse have forgotten.
Truly, how many of us care if a team is called the Indians. Well it does matter to some and I want to hear their side. I have the luxury to do this. I don't scrape by on 31 cents a day, and my teeth aren't rotting out and I have been well educated. I live in a modern society in large measure built by the men who survived that war. This includes both sides of my family and both sides of that war. We owe them the conversation.
Now before everybody blows up, this isn't about Alexanderia, Virginia. This is about Iraq. I don't understand is how you pass a law that can never be changed.
I know it's not that simple, but when someone says they have passed a law that can never be changed it pisses me off. Rational of not , it is like fingernails on a blackboard to me.
I remember reading stories about the CPA passing laws with the stipulation they could never be changed. It made me furious and I wonder how many Iraqis felt the same.

Charles I

Thanks for the time capsule. As for bankers being different then, I seem to recall Jubal Early motivating some to "serve" in DTS

turcopolier

Brad Ruble

The law cannot be changed by the city government. It could be repealed by the General Assembly of Virginia. That will not happen. The present city government of Alexandria are regarded in Richmond as something to be endured but ignored. We have the "Dillon Rule" in Virginia. The local jurisdictions are strictly limited by charter as to their powers.

You were quick to get your shorts in a knot about this. pl

turcopolier

Charles I

So true but I was thinking of bankers like Corse, Herbert, Fowle (senior) et al who did not hang back. pl

Fred

Looking at this statue you can tell those men who survived knew the cost of war. Your point is well taken: "Four years later the survivors came home to resume their civilian lives. The policy of the federal government in seeking a healing of the country rather than vengeance made that possible."

It seems now, more than four generations removed, some seek vengeance still. They would rather try and erase history than understand it.

Fred

"Now before everybody blows up, this isn't about Alexanderia, Virginia." Yes, it is. And a lot more.

SAC Brat

"Our stone soldier is standing tall, leaning on a marble musket, staring intently at the horizon to detect the advance of Yankee armies.
For generations the stone soldier in Russellville stood his ground in the center of the main intersection in town. But after a drunk driver from Moline, Illinois, splattered his fancy little foreign sports car all over the stone soldier's marble pedestal, the old campaigner--one Yankee to his credit, confirmed--was shifted to a more strategic position across the road and onto the courthouse lawn." Gustav Hasford, "The Phantom Blooper".

Matthew

Col: A series of character portraits of Northern and Southern generals would make an interesting read. BTW, I wish we were still naming armies after rivers.

Mike Martin, Yorktown, VA

My next door neighbor has set himself the task of photographing all of Virginia's courthouses. I should go with him and photograph the Confederate memorials that are usually nearby, if not on the courthouse grounds proper.

Jose

Why doesn't Alexandria petition to join Maryland?

John

"Bankers seem to have been different then." Now there is an understatement.

Thanks for the perspective on an interesting story.

Cronin

Driving across my own New England, across upstate New York, northern Ohio and Michigan -- the Great Yankee Kingdom, the old heart of the Free Soil Party -- one is greeted in each little town by a monument to those who served in what is usually called The War of the Rebellion (others prefer War Between the States; I myself prefer simply 'The Civil War'). I do not think the brave Billy Yanks who died fighting brave Johnny Rebs would begrudge the latter their monuments. This is true despite -- or especially? -- because we of the Northern States are typically (when we think of such things, which is rare in all of the USA these days) inclined to agree with Grant about our southern kith, that never have men fought so bravely for a cause so unjust. But that is our view, and I should not expect the citizens of the Southern states to share it. And we, who have never tasted the bitterness of defeat in the way our Southern compatriots have, ought to be humble, gracious, and brotherly (as ought they), so that we might be "Friends and Countrymen once more."

Tyler

Sir,

Your recollections on these subjects are always a treasure to read. It is a shame that the natives down in Birmingham don't have enough class or comprehension to handle the issueof the Forrest statue like this.

turcopolier

cronin

"never have men fought so bravely for a cause so unjust" My ancestors founded New England. They kept moving west away from the Saltonstalls and all the other Yankee prigs. They were abolitionists and went out of their way to serve in various Wisconsin infantry units. "a cause so unjust," What? You cannot separate in your mind the institution of slavery from the truth of sectional domination and aggression? Slavery had been legally widespread in the victorious North 30 years before the CW. You don't think slavery would have departed the South naturally? What self-satisfied and condescending hypocrisy! Feel good! You can say anything you like, anything you like. It is the victor's privilege. pl

turcopolier

jose

It is hard to imagine an idea more repulsive to the great majority of Alexandrians. The carpetbagger and scalawag politicians here in both parties would be glad to sit in Annapolis. They would fit right in with regard to that state. Check the US constitution on partition of a state. Virginia would never agree. pl

Fred

"We of the Northern States..."

I've seen more trucks around town (Dexter, MI) with the Stars and Bars on the bumper than I've seen in a lot of small Southern towns. I think those driving those trucks share a great deal of sympathy with those who fought against the abuse of power of the central government.

turcopolier

Mike Martin

He should photograph the Confederate statue in front of the old courthouse in Leesburg. It is an accurate depiction of an A of N Va rifleman in the Spring of 1863. pl

Tyler

"Cause so unjust"

Pushback against regional tyranny seeking to shove its way of life down everyone's throat at bayonet point is hardly unjust. The North has forgotten everything it learned, and here we are again with a vocal minority demanding you accede to their wishes or else.

mongo

Hello, Sir:

This story brings to mind a personal anecdote. When I was 14 or 15, I noticed one evening that my parents were having lentil soup for dinner and it suddenly occurred to me to ask them why because they had made something else for my sister and I. The answer was intriguing -- they did this once a year to mark their experiences in Greece during WW II, when lentils were all too often all they had to eat. Having been born and raised in Canada, this was something completely outside my own experience.

I was an outsider at that moment observing my own parents' memories of something that I could only respect and relate to in an abstract, intellectual way. Over the years, I see it as one of the many profound moments when they evolved in my mind from being my parents to people in their own right who had a rich life outside of the part that involved me personally.

I feel similarly, albeit far less vividly, about this statue. Apart from its historical significance, it has a human significance. Real people built this to mark a part of their lives that was profound to them, and that commands my respect.

My $0.02,

mongo

Cronin

Colonel,

I honestly did not believe I would offend; and I do apologize that I did. I do apologize especially to the descendants of those who fought for the CSA: I did not mean to disrespect your ancestors. I really was not trying to troll. As for me: my ancestors were drafted Irishmen in one of the Mass. Regiments (I don't have it in front of me); the other side are not Saltonstalls, but rather poor swamp Yankees, and I have been unable to determine their service records in the Civil War, though they did fight in the Revolution.
But no, I cannot separate slavery from the war. It was the sine qua non of the war, a grievous Sin which left Newport, Rhode Island, as guilty as Norfolk, Virginia. I am well aware of the history of the institution of "Black Laws" in the north (e.g., Ohio had a far worse Code Noir than Virginia, for Free Blacks). But when the very men justifying secession, like Alexander Stephens, speak of slavery as a "Cornerstone" of the new Confederate government; and when, rather than accept the rule of the majority who sought to restrain the spread of a wicked, and indeed peculiar, institution into the West, secede, they inextricably link Slavery and Secession.
There is a good chance you shall ban me for this, Colonel; and such a thing will be to my regret, as I do often agree, and often disagree, with your excellent analysis. It would certainly be within your right, though I hope that you would tolerate even a mild statement of the Northern mind. But this is a risk I must run: this is the view of the Northern people on that war, and I should feel that I betrayed them, my family, my neighbors, my kin, if I did not give their view of the matter.

Cronin

Fred,
I've spent a lot of time in Dexter. It's one of the towns I was thinking of when I described that statue of the soldier on the Common. A good jerky shop, too....
But I wonder about your interpretation of the Stars-and-Bars you sometimes see on trucks; after all, no state in the 20th c. absorbed more Southern migrants, white and black, than Michigan. I have spoken with many Old Michiganders out in the northern part of Washtenaw County who, when you bring up the Civil War, are far more violent than me in their denunciations of the Southern cause.
I hope the community at SST, if this gets through, will take in good faith my hope for 'malice towards none, and charity toward all.'

turcopolier

cronin

"a grievous Sin" You are a pretentious man who judges for the Lord, but I will not ban you here for that. Yes, the Northern people are a different people filled with the self-righteousness that you display. My great grandfather Sanford Erastus Bills served as the first sergeant of an infantry company in the 5th Wisconsin at; The Wilderness, Spotsylvania. the North Anna, 2nd Cold harbor. 3rd Winchester and Cedar Creek. You think you could disrespect him? How sad. He would have agreed with you. What you tell us in the South is that we are still an occupied people. pl

turcopolier

All

I try this from time to time to see if the "Northern People" are still as arrogant, condescending and self righteous as ever. This is colonialism by another name. I am satisfied that the North is unchanged. Southerners are not much better. I will try this again some other time. pl

The comments to this entry are closed.

My Photo

February 2020

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
            1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
Blog powered by Typepad