« Mursi as "rational actor." | Main | The Real Action will be on Friday in Cairo »

12 September 2012

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

Andrew

"...when I look into BiBi & Stevie's eyes I see the kind of certainty that makes me desperate."

I see an Orwellian hell in the making brought to us by Chabad and their Dominonist freaks on the one hand and the firecrackers of Allah on the other.

GregB

So, how soon before we are told by some shadowy character speaking anonymously to a Murdoch newspaper in England that the smoking gun evidence implicating Iran has been found?

Tyler

Only if you let it get that far.

Tyler

Yeah, Romney's an idiot, but he wasn't the idiot last year sending planes to help the "Freedom Fighters" oust Qaddafi because...DEMOCRACY!

Nancyk

Tyler, but I imagine if eleted he will be the idiot who gets us into war with Iran because of ISRAEL.

Fred

At least the current Libyan government tried to defend the American Consulate, unlike Mursi in Egypt.

Medicine Man

Which our host here actually regarded as a good idea, if I recall correctly.

turcopolier

MM

I still think it was a good idea. The consulate in Benghazi was attacked by a group of AQ, not the population or government of Libya. pl

Medicine Man

Col.: I haven't changed my mind about that either. I was skeptical about the Libyian intervention but found many of your and TTG's arguments persuasive.

I was responding only to point out to Tyler that better men than me regard that intervention as a "not idiot" thing to do.

Tyler

As I have said before, you're voting Israel 2012 either way.

Tyler

So another AQ/Secularist conflict then?

Tyler

We are allowed to have differences of opinions, even if I bow respectfully to his vast command & experience in regards to this topic.

Tyler

And if I recall correctly, Obama also threw Egypt's president under the bus as well.

How's that working out for us?

Medicine Man

Obama has been very lucky with the Republican adversaries he's been faced with. Obama remains vulnerable but Romney is such a clod, and is so saddled with the baggage of past Republican errors, that he can't put together a convincing attack.

But make no mistake, Obama and his team has been naive about developments in the Middle East. His administration was supportive of revolution in Egypt and Syria, apparently without a better than idyllic grasp of how things would shake out post-revolution in either country. It is damning to have things rebounding to the US's detriment in Egypt a few years later. If he had skilled opposition, they could make hay out of this.

Medicine Man

Swimmingly.

I've made a reply to Cronin up-thread about this, which hasn't shown up yet. The gist of my reply is that the speed with which things rebounded in the face of the US wrt Egypt is damning. If Obama had an opponent who could stop stepping on his own dick, they would make hay out of this.

Medicine Man

I suppose I should elaborate.

I simply don't regard Obama as a fool. I think he's surrounded by quite a few and that his judgment is called into question by his reliance on them.

At the minimum I don't regard Libya as an example of his foolishness. I don't think the fallout in Libya outweighs the risks that the US (and the West) took on Libya's behalf.

E L

More internal mess for Bibi: http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/09/13/us-iran-nuclear-israel-idUSBRE88C12820120913

turcopolier

tyler As you know, I was opposed to abandoning Mubarak and his government to their fate. I still am. Libya and Egypt are two very dfferent places. pl

Tyler

Sir,

I know you did - I was just bringing that up as some people on here seem committed to defending Obama's Arab Spring lovefest with any trivial anecdote. No slights were meant.

Chris Matthews about wet his pants talking about how Obama was responsible for "democracy on the march" IIRC. All those organs are, unsurprisingly, silent about this blowback.

Tyler

The good Colonel doesn't have the full force of the US military enforcing his will.

Though, I reckon we'd be better off if he did.

Also, I don't recall the arguments here being of the high minded Wilsonian "democracy = panacea for EVERYTHING" like what was coming out of the WH. They were a lot more clear eyed here, and perhaps if the follow through had been in that vein, we wouldn't be seeing AQ dragging our ambassador through the stre-...I mean dragging him to the hospital.

Instead we have Hillary cackling over Qaddafi being sodomized before he was killed.

Tyler

There was an opponent named Ron Paul. However the powers that be decided we the people should have the honor of voting for a globalist idiot no matter what letter is next to his name instead of an actual choice.

Tyler

Well we differ on our opinions of Obama. I think he is a fool and a malicious fool at that.

I didn't see an upside in us being involved in Libya. I know it was painted as more DEMOCRACY!!!11 over here in the US but in reality it seemed to be pushback against rising commodity prices.

Of course, with Bernanke announcing another QE and gold looking to hit new highs, I suppose we'll be in for an up close and personal look at our own American Spring.

Will Reks

Also they just elected a secular Prime Minister over the Muslim Brotherhood's candidate in Libya.

Medicine Man

I have two thoughts on this:

Yes, I do get the sense that the executive branch (and its hangers on) took the wrong lessons from Libya. While they haven't called their posture a "doctrine", per se, they have fallen into a pattern of supporting populist movements regardless of the circumstances. It's becoming clear (to me at least, Col. Lang knew immediately) that we will be seeing the fruits of this idealism for years to come.

It's not clear to me that a dewy-eyed, democracy = panacea, agenda was implemented in post rebellion Libya. At the time TTG and Col. Lang's recommendations for post-battle Libya was to make sure that the Libyan's get their internationally held currency and then get out of the way. This seems to be what was done. Moreover, nobody here promised that Libya would be safe or even grateful after the fracas.

I guess the only reason I'm arguing with you is that I find it absurd to heap the White House with scorn for following a course of action that respected commentators here advocated themselves. A course of action, I might add, that unfolded pretty much how they predicted.

If your commentary is mostly a riff on how Obama-defenders like to conflate the defensible interventions with the indefensible ones or that Obama himself is the proverbial "blind squirrel", then yeah, I can see your point.

Medicine Man

Yeah... While I have plenty of reservations about Dr No, I sure would love see some of his positions on foreign policy front and center right now. I suppose there's no point in commenting on why establishment types on both sides of the aisle find him threatening or why the media/commerce wing were happy to see him marginalized.

The comments to this entry are closed.

My Photo

February 2021

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
  1 2 3 4 5 6
7 8 9 10 11 12 13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21 22 23 24 25 26 27
28            
Blog powered by Typepad