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22 July 2012

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Jake

The answer is... Leave it alone. These are isolated incidents and we will never find common ground.

The real issue is not legal guns. Its illegal guns. That is where we need to focus and come up with real laws. How about adding to the USC a mandatory. Get caught with an illegal weapon. Serve five years and a 10K fine. Do it again, serve ten years witha 20k fine and the third time? 25 years and a 50k fine.. Forget using one during a crime. Just get caught with one. Get caught using one committing a crime? Add to the punishment for the crime a double sentence and fine just for having it...

Fred

There have been a number of studies on movie violence in the US.
Here's a summary:
http://www.med.umich.edu/yourchild/topics/tv.htm

No one has recommended censoring movie violence, though maybe to take an idea from a poster above, we should have a movie murder tax?

Alba Etie

col lang
on this issue i may be a little loony myself
to para phrase ' from my cold dead fingers '

Tigershark

That wasn't what I am saying. But I am assuming the guns and ammo are price sensitive. If you increase the price through taxation, few guns and ammo may be sold. Now, this person may just have made pipe bombs instead. (Hopefully blowing his hand off in the process.)

As for internet taxation, yes, I think that goods sold over the internet should be taxed. There is no reason the Col.'s books should be taxed at different rates depending on the method of sale. Internet sales should be taxed at the rate of the buyers location.

As for mental health care, that is a whole 'nother kettle of fish.

turcopolier

tigershark

"If you increase the price through taxation, few guns and ammo may be sold" So, your goal is to prevent ordinary people owning guns. Would you call yourself an elitst? pl

Tigershark

Col.

Elitist? Not at all. But if the objective is to sell fewer guns, raising the price should have an impact. From my visits to gun stores, they come in all ranges of prices and are price sensitive.

I was following your dictate to "be creative."

With pawn shops, gun shows, and the array of lower priced weapons available for sale, I doubt ordinary people would be prevented from owning guns. Maybe not able to buy the most expensive guns, but I cry for them no more than I would expect you or they would cry for me because I can not afford a Ferrari. Other options are available.

Mounted archer?

Paul Escobar

To all,

Body scanners or some other search procedure before entry?

Alot of these types prefer the indoors, with boxed-in targets. These circumstances will dissuade them.

Properly trained, armed, & staffed security?

These types are given too much time for drama. The private sector will understand this as the opportunity cost of doing business in such an environment.

turcopolier

tigershark

I call you an elitist. pl

Tigershark

Col.

Never been called elitist in my life, but I will wear your "honorific" with pride.

Babak Makkinejad

All:

Is this indiscriminate shooting a post 1960s phenomenon in the United States?

I mean, many people were given small caliber rifles by their parents when they were kids; they did not grow up to become mass murderers.

So, were there mass-shootings before 1960 in the United States - against students, movie-goers etc.?

Could this be related to the drug-culture of the United States?

Does any one know?

Bill H

Tigershark, "But if the objective is to sell fewer guns,"

Why would the objective be to sell fewer guns?

scott s.

It should be noted that there already is a manufacturer's excise tax on firearms and ammunition (see Internal Revenue Code section 4181)and administered by the taxation part of the old ATF (now called TTB). The tax was imposed by the Pittman-Robertson Act of 1937 and primarily is used for improving habitat for game animals and other conservation/hunting programs (such as hunter's ed).

Hank Foresman

Colonel Lang; at another site, where there was a very uninformed discussion on the whole situation of guns and our culture, I offered some advice, which I will share with you and your readers, in your case I am merely telling you something you already know. A. While the Federalists Paper may offer insights into the nature of our Constitution; it is the "so called" Anti-Federalists paper that offer the greatest insights into our Bill of Rights. B. If you are going to discuss guns know WTF you are talking about--just because it looks like an M16 or one of its variants--does not mean it is an automatic weapon! Corollary they are magazines not clips.

DaveGood

Last year over in the USA over 8000 people were murdered with firearms. In the United Kingdom it was about one a week, ( 58 was the total).

SteveB said it was impossible to prevent the sale (I assume he means the LEGAL purchase) of guns.

Bullshit, of course it is, most countries on all inhabited continents do exactly that.

I would remind you all that the USA Constitution's second amendment states that an individuals right to keep and bear arms is legally allowable ONLY if he is part of a well regulated mitlitia, What well regulated miltia did Holmes belong to?

Or for that matter the host of this blog?

And why do you all think the founders of America wanted to avoid a standing military at all costs and use a citizen militia for the defence of the country?

They had a reason.

DaveGood

YT

Fred,

Well sorry if I've made you think of me as a minor.

:)

The movie murder tax idea is original though.

Walrus

I suspect that this guy never put more than a few rounds through any of his weapons, knew nothing of immediate actions, nor any other drills, had no practice and never took a stone to the action or magazines - all for which we can be thankful; "His gun jammed" - thank God.

Does anyone know different?

turcopolier

DaveGood

"the USA Constitution's second amendment states that an individuals right to keep and bear arms is legally allowable ONLY if he is part of a well regulated mitlitia," SCOTUS has ruled recently that the militia clause applies to all citizens whether or not in an organized militis. in other words ownership of firearms is an individual right in the US. Like the boor that you are you took this opportunity to insult me as a retired Regular officer. You were banned here. Stay gone. pl

turcopolier

walrus

"never took a stone to the action or magazines" Not sure what that means... take the rough edges off? Yes, that M-16 variant had probaby never had more than a few rounds fired through it before the fatal event. pl

turcopolier

Hank Foresman

Yes, the papers of the anti-federalists like George Mason are enlightening but there is a specific federalist paper, #46, that explains Madison's view as to why the citizenry must be armed. I agree that the level of ignorance of the law and of firearms in the furor over this tragedy is unimpressive. pl

ISL

Late to this thread, but the only thing I have heard that was particularly rational was on a call in LA show, where the caller indicated that health insurance should do a better job covering mental health treatment. Without being particularly knowledgable, I suspect it is more pitiful than the lousy way our insurance system covers normal health problems (ie high copays and deductibles that cause most to forego treatment or medical visits).

Such a better "net" would catch more people like Holmes and get them the help they need before they go postal. It also would help people who decide to end their life through whatever (gun/non-gun) method - a sad tragedy that is a loss to all.

SAC Brat

Seems to be a human condition.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bath_School_disaster

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_rampage_killers

Fred

YT, not thinking of you as a minor at all, just wanted to point out the study.

CK

The part time McDonald's worker/grad school dropout appears to have been able to acquire several thousands of dollars worth of nice equipment, protective gear and explosives in a very short period of residence.
One wonders who assisted in the financing, supply and training. A rough, back of the napkin, estimate of the cost of his weapons, body armour and ammo supplies comes to over 6K; the chemicals he might have been able to save money on by sourcing from the college chem lab; at least until he quit.
Not ONE person fought back, lots tried to run; none tried to fight. A repeat of the Norwegian experience.
A few of the men tried to shield their dates. Successful for the dates; less so for the shields.
But the narrative and the topic has already been decreed, I doubt that questions of where acquired and how much spent and how the money was acquired will be given much consideration.

Fred

Babak,

I think you answered your own question. There are millions of gun owning Americans who haven't become mass murderers. There is no evidence to link the perpetrator of this event to drug use or drug culture. He is certainly mentally ill. "I am the Joker"?

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/aurora-dark-knight-suspect-joker-cops/story?id=16822251

As to prior shootings, check the Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/School_shooting

John Minnerath

I would imagine questions of financing the expenditures is being given a great deal of consideration by investigators.

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