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22 July 2012

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Tigershark

I was responding to the Col.

"How can you keep an adult with no psychiatric problems, criminal record or restraining orders concerning firearms from buying a gun?

Ban guns? That i not going to happen in the USA so get creative.. pl"

I believe the sale of guns (and most items) are price sensitive. Perhaps if guns and ammo were higher priced he would not have purchased them.

But perhaps then he would have used pipe bombs or fire bombs or even his car.

Tigershark

Probably financed by VISA or Mastercard.

alnval

Col. Lang:

Regarding Holmes descent into mental illness: I find it hard to believe that Colorado did not have in place a mentoring program for their intellectually valuable first year neuroscience graduate students that could have picked up on the nature of the changes that would inevitably be occurring in all of them including Holmes. For Holmes that would include his reported desire to leave Colorado and go to another school. Other things like monitoring his already well-identified social isolation would also have been important grist for that mentoring mill. IMO the so-called “red flag” data that would have been prodromal to his descent into mental illness were not that hard to detect.

Babak Makkinejad

Thank you for your comments.

The mass-school shootings seem to have begun with an incident in 1966 in Texas.

Prior events, per the URL that you had posted, were almost exclusively altercations between 2 individuals that had escalated.

Clearly, then, 1960s were a seminal period in the United States social history.

Babak Makkinejad

He must have been lonely, without a girlfriend.

Best Stun Gun

Having a master's degree does not mean that a person is mentally stable. I think this person has been suffering from mental illness and a deep hatred for society for a long time. I just don't believe their was not signs.

http://www.absolutesecuritystore.com/best-stun-guns.html

mongo

Hello, Sir:

"IMO the emphasis should be on ways to keep crazy people from buying guns legally. This would not be easy."

The only means available for something like this is an amendment to the Constitution. There is nothing at all in the Constitution that mandates special treatment for "crazy people" and therefore anything in the U.S. Code which purports to do so could in principle could be struck down unless such a challenge is in conflict with another section of that document. At which point the question of precedence between the different sections of the Constitution must be addressed and decided, which again IMO would require the amendment process to settle clearly.

What you are talking about is not a Second Amendment issue, but rather an issue that spans the entire document.

JTCornpone

You might remember from prevoius communications that I am a non-NRA gun owner and former competetive smallbore rifle shooter at the college level.

I have picked up a few drops of info bearing on some of the questions which have arisen during the Holmes massacre discussion . I will proceed to extrapolate them into a theoretical ocean.

I read somewhere that since Holmes was considered of great academic promise in neuroscience he was receiving academic research support. Something like a couple of thousand a month. This was the apparent source of the money for the equipment needed to carry out his actions.

I also read that he had failed some exam prior to his actions as was mentioned in the original post. In my academic career I remember a few critical exams along the way which, if failed, could have been considered the "end of my future". At my school you had to take the Graduate Record Exam at the end of your Master's studies in engineering to go on to the Ph.D. Failing this exam would have led to my receiving an ominous sounding "terminal" Masters degree. This would have been devastating to my expectations and could even have led to my death as I would have immediately been drafted (in 1968) and also lose my couple of thousand a month (equivalent) from NSF, HEW, and the Air Force. Holmes would have lost similarly minus the draft.

Thus, (here comes the ocean) one could suppose that his abrupt descent from a future success to being in big trouble might have been precipitated this abrupt reversal in his academic path. Herein lies the problem implicit in some of the comments. Yes it would be nice to be able to weed out the crazies but what if, in the absence of this negative turn in his life, Holmes would have gone on to be an exemplary and maybe even an outstanding citizen and been perfectly safe around dangerous weapons. How do you sort out the perfectly sane people who will crack in extreme (from their point of view) circumstances, from the perfectly sane people who will get on with it, turn to chemicals, counseling or whatever. Holmes may not be a classical nut job. Maybe just in hindsight. I've read no evidence he was a "nut job" before his life crashed and burned.

And here's another question: If I offered this group a test which could sort out 90% of the potential future mass murders in a population who would crack if their life took a devastating turn and falsely identify only10% of the perfectly ok folks as bad, would that be something we could actually use? Would that be good enough for you? Sorry, I don't know the answer but 10% chance of false assignment to the "problem group" seems pretty high especially if it involved some consequence. And I can't possibly imagine a test for real human beings you could devise which would even remotely approach that statistical accuracy.

So here we are in the USA, home of pratical people, problem solvers, with seemingly sensible governing principles, completely stuck for a solution to a practical problem:

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2012/07/mass-shootings-map

We are the mass murder leader among all the advanced nations on the planet at peace on their home turf and principal gun supplier to the Mexican drug cartels as well as a whole bunch of other characters who do us all harm at regular intervals, with no "acceptable" idea how to fix it. I see it as a flaw in our system but still go back to the previous sentence, a flaw with no apparent fix. We are certainly a creative people. I'm not sure that helps us here.

I also believe that if we ever do come to more gun control, the NRA will be principally responsible. I believe that it's possible to push things so far in terms of buying, openly carrying, deregulating extremely lethal types of weapons, Teflon coated bullets to use against body armor, and so on that when the mother of all mass murders finally occurs the PR climate could abruptly tip. I get a catalog which lists a 100 round dual-cylindrical tommy gun type magazine for your AK or AR type weapon. I really think that's going too far. It risks raising the masses even if it's cheap imported junk that will jam on the 85th fatality..

As far as what assault weapons are I will ask Mitt Romney the next time we speak. He apparently signed an assault weapons ban in Massachusetts when he was Governor so he must know.

JT

rick

The conflation of Sale, Ownership, and Use is(are?)a major problem with this discussion.

I am wonndering whether SCOTUS included the right to buy anything without regulation in that ownership decision.

Walrus

Arkansas slipstone or suchlike used to very gently deburr any sharp edges and remove machining marks.

I believe a weapon should be "shot in", not just to protect the barrel, but to "run in" the moving parts.

I note that Cabelas is offering a 90 round drum mag for $132.99.

Did you get the .17 HMR?

veh

What if in order to buy any gun you simply had to have two people vouch for you before you could pick up the gun? it would be a formality akin to having a witness at your wedding, or having someone vouch for you at a voting booth. It is a somewhat archaic mechanism, but it would enshrine the notions of personal integrity,honor and personal reputation. It could be made more restrictive (require waiting periods, more formal affidavits, require persons be present, require voucher for every single purchase) or it could be made more lax (require only one person, accept letters as vouchers, voucher covers all subsequent purchases) It could apply to all types of weapons (even fully automatic could be allowable), ammunition, types of permits, or only a selected class. It obviously wouldn't filter out all or even most abuses, but it could be a way of filtering out some of these loner psychotic killers, or at least allow more chances for a red flag to be waved. I would think that people like Holmes, or Loughner, or the NIU shooter would have to ask around before they found two people willing to vouch for them. Do you think mainstream republicans would go for it? Do you think NRA types would go for it if a republican president proposed it?

Raymond Torres

i agree with you

Jim Ticehurst

Babak...

Good Question...and a good starting Point (The 1960's in the USA) to begin looking at the growing Influence of "Cultures"..on the Younger Generation ..thier Mental Health..(The Topic) and thier Increasing Acts of Violence and Anti Social behavior..

I began My Career as a Law Enforcement officer and CSI Detective in the 1960s..during the Viet Nam Conflict..I experienced first hand, all of the Social Changes brought about by
the "Cultural Revolution"..of the Leftists enhanced by Rapid widespead use of Mind Alterating Drugs ..and Music ..by vunerable Young People..

That Revolution was very effective..and has continued to erode American Society..its Values and Politics..It has altered the Behaviour and Anti Social/Anti "Establishment "Attitudes of many of our Younger and middle age Generations..

One has only to look at how idelogically divided America's political Establishment has become now..
from growing out of this Process...FAR Left vs..FAR Right...and No moderation..No compromises..

The Main Stream Media, CIA,FBI and Congress have all overlooked the TRUTH, This problem is not about the NRA, Gun Rights,,or Policy..Its about how efective the use of Drugs and Music...and Music Lyrics can be in Causing or Changing Behaviour..especially the Behaviour of Mentally unstable..Loner type Young People..who listen day and night to the UNREGULATED "Rage/Hate/Anti establishment..Heavy Metal music of today..Many of these Bands Promote Anachcy..Revolution..Killing..Violence..and even suicide..

I have done extensive research ..and documented many of these Band and thier LYRICS..and how many of these recent Mass Murderers listened to them..

The Arizona Killer...JARED LOUGHNER, seemed addicted to Heavy Metal Music..His facorite Band was called ANTI FLAG..Thier songs are ALL about Revolution..Anarchy..Fighting the System..Hating the Government and Institution...and even MARTYRDOM for the Cause..Thier hit Song..? "Fuck the (American) Flag."Its public knowledge the Media has Missed..

Jared went to Public Concerts in Arizona of HATE bands..that promoted Anarchy..Thier Stage props included large RED..WHITE and BLACK Banners..as used by the NAZI's..many of these Bands come out of England and Europe..

My research and compafisons show that the Batman Killer JAMES HOLMES listened to "TECHNO/HYPNO Music"..and was blasting it loudly in his Apartment during His Killing Spree..

Also..The The Virginia Tech Killer...SEUNG HUI CHO was into Heavy Metal Music..and left behind a "Manifesto"..with quotes from a heavy Metal band called KREATOR...and thier Song "AMOK RUN."which blames societys treatment of him for his Behaviour..and MARTYDOM..

I found the same about Columbic schools Killer ERIC HARRIS and DYLAN KLEBOLD..They...were totally into Songs and Music by Heavy metal Rocker..TRENT REZNOR...under the Band name NINE INCH NAILS..whose songs are about Violence..Killing..hating the Establishment..One Song is Named THE GREAT DESTROYER..

The Oregon Kid..KIP KINGLE...who shot his classmates and Killed His Parents..also was a big REZNOR Fan..all songs about putting a gun to peoles heads and shooting them..

TRENT REZNOR is the Top Man in the Music Industry in Hollywood..and widely acclaimed..He alsoi Promoted Heavy Rocker MARILYN MANSON..who also used RED,WHITE,BLACK Banners..Nazi like symbols..

If you want and experience..YOUTUBE Marilyn Manson.." or MAYHEM Festival 2010n in Arizona..

You will see how..Drugs..Music Beat...and Lyrics..can be used to PROGRAM..thinking and Behaviour..and Change a Generation..

After All..It happened in Nazi Germany...

Medicine Man

24 counts of murder and 116 counts of attempted murder. If he's found competent to stand trial, Holmes is going to get quite a sentence.

YT

Sir,

I'm VERY LONELY (THIS VERY MOMENT), WITHOUT a FEMALE companion.

I'm not in the damn mood to go murdering people with knives (very easily accessible) or firearms (a tad harder).

Or to tie explosives (harder to acquire, but still) to my body & blow others up in process as a form of vengeance against this most unfair capitalist society.

In fact I'd make the world a better place (one painstaking step-at-a-time) so that dudes younger than me wouldn't have to undergo the same cr*p predicament I'm presently facing.

Just my 2 ¢.

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