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19 June 2012

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The Twisted Genius

I agree for the most part. Zimmerman hasn't made a good decision after the initial call to 911 when he spotted Martin on that rainy night. He's not malevolent, just seriously lacking in judgement. Yes, he should be found in contempt of court then charged and tried for perjury. Let the system run it's course. Bail is a separate matter. He should get it. I never liked the idea of incarcerating someone while they are not yet convicted and sentenced. He's more a danger to himself than to the community. He won't run, unless some yahoo talks him into it.

Dongo

Gotta say, I agree with everything the Col. said on this one.

steve

I agree wholeheartedly.

The only purpose of bail is to ensure a defendant's appearance.

Lying to the court, at least in matters not directly related to the defendant's flight risk, and/or committing perjury should be handled either by a contempt citation or by an indictment.

Those issues should have nothing to do with bail on the original charges--again assuming the falsehoods did not relate to any risk of flight.

But district judges hold sway in what is one of America's few monarchical fiefdoms, the courtroom. Insult one of his/her majesties and the rules of logic, reason, and frequently the law, fly out the window.

Lars

One big problem for George Zimmerman now will be: What else has he lied about? The legal experts on local TV seem to agree that he has substantially damaged his credibility.

par4

Yes the legal principle of "Falsus in unum Falsus in Omnibus".

Charles I

Courts don't generally give bail to perpetrators of fraud against the Court, and lying about assets available for bail is in effect, bail fraud, and is not to be sanctioned, let alone condoned or rewarded.

Matthew

Col: i couldn't agree more. People act like bail is equivalent to a fine. No. It's only purpose is to ensure attendance at trial. And remand should be reserved for flight risks and people who pose a continuing danger. In Mr. Zimmerman's case, a condition of bail should include turning in his neighborhood watch badge.

John Minnerath

The guy is not a mental giant, but I still think there are some powerful forces out to hang him to push their own agendas.
He needs much better legal counsel than he seems to be getting.

Medicine Man

That sounds about right to me.

Tyler

The transcript was selectively edited. The truth is that there was no way Mrs. Zimmerman could have known how much was in the paypal account. Going after Mrs. Zimmerman reeks of a hatchet job trying to force a plea deal so there aren't riots in the streets of urban youf.

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2012/06/03/regarding-zimmerman-finances-a-legal-consideration/

1) I do not believe DONATIONS (gifts) are legally considered Zimmerman assets. Nor are the monies assets/funds subject to disclosure to a Judge at a BAIL hearing, or any criminal court proceeding, but specifically where the ONLY matter being discussed is bail (the amount of bail is to assure defendant’s appearance. Bail is NOT punishment, a sanction, or a strategic device (e.g., to deny counsel and coerce a guilty plea).

Bonus Inquiry: Even if the donations/gifts are assets, did the State Attorney put into EVIDENCE what the Zimmermans did with the money? IS THERE ANY EVIDENCE THAT THE ZIMMERMANS SPENT ALL OR PART OF IT, AND ON WHAT?
AFAIK the only EVIDENCE admitted was a cryptic telephone conversation about purportedly moving money around. Do Corey and Crump (I have no doubt Crump was a part of this) have any EVIDENCE that what the Zimmermans did was illegal, improper, or IN CONTRAVENTION TO A COURT ORDER? (The only relevant comment from the Judge I recall was when he said he was taking the PayPal donations issue under advisement and said (words to the effect):

”I am not sure I have jurisdiction or authority over the PayPal donations.”

IMO, the Judge’s concern was valid, he DOES NOT have the jurisdiction in an unrelated criminal proceeding to dictate what a defendant does or does not do with monies received by “strangers.” He does NOT have the authority to inquire how much money was received, nor where the money is going, nor how it is spent. (See attorneys fees concern below.)

Here's another good take it on it from a lawyer on TalkLeft, and another from Legal Insurrection:

http://www.talkleft.com/story/2012/6/12/193621/590

http://legalinsurrection.com/2012/06/perjury-charge-against-shellie-zimmerman-raises-more-questions-of-prosecutorial-overreaching/

With Angela Corey threatening to sue Harvard for the remarks of Alan Dershowitz, I wouldn't put it past her to try and squeeze George by going after his wife.

Tyler

Weren't the tee vee legal experts also calling him a white guy for the longest time? I don't think his credibility is damaged when comapred to the mountains of physical evidence, especially when you compare the original narrative to what it eventually became.

Lars

The language of the judge, when revoking the bail, was rather harsh against George Zimmerman and his wife was soon charged with perjury. There is now also a bank statement that shows all the activity and it appears also to be damaging. There is only one reason why you limit withdrawals to $9,999.90 and there were several of those.

Thus, the question remains: What else has he lied about?

Tyler

What was Zimmerman to do? Jump up and interrupt O Mara? I have yet to hear a response to this that makes any sense. 'It appears'. How does it appear? No one seems to be able to explain that one either.

I would say the prosecutiom's affadavit is much more of a travesty for its bouquet of half truths amd mislaid facts, if we are going to talk about who has lied more.

Lars

George Z will have an opportunity to answer many questions at his next bail hearing. In the meantime, more evidence will be made public, as per order of the judge. In the end, it will be up to a jury but we are a long way from that.

turcopolier

All

Is it true that Corey is threatening to sue Harvard University because Dershowitz criticizes her? If so, I hope she arrives in court on this matter. I might go to the trial. pl

Tyler

Sir,

I will provide a link when I get home, but it is ondeed true. If you have time, you can probably dig it up on that conservative treehouse blog.

Tyler

So you concede the half truths. And false narrative pushed by the prosecution are more problematic than Zimmerman's bond? I noticed you did not answer how Zimmerman was supposed to go about correcting O Mara or how the bank statements are problematic.

Remember, it may not get to the jury. Zimmerman certainly has a solid SYG basis for dismissal. It will all come down to the politics, as has been the case in this matter.

Lars

I am not conceding anything other than it will be awhile before this is over and as this point, the end it unclear. That includes certainty.

Tyler

Sir,

As per your request:

http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/06/07/dershowitz-zimmerman-prosecutor-threatened-to-sue-harvard/

Mark Logan

TTG, MM

The guy had to spend most of June in the can for this. I suspect the judge will deem that enough punishment. Hope so, anyway.

The Twisted Genius

Zimmerman needs better legal representation than what he's had to this point. While his website and PayPal account were good ideas, his lawyer should have told him to shut that sucker down and let the lawyer set up the site and control the donations as a legal defense fund and Zimmerman family living expense fund as needed. If his lawyer (second one I believe) didn't know all about his donation fund and how they were moving money around before the bail hearing, he is incompetent. That led to the fiasco of trying to hide the existence of those funds from the court. A shaved ape could have handled that better. Rich and powerful (if anonymous) supporters will replenish the support fund. Zimmerman and his lawyer should have played it straight. Instead, they tried to be clever and ended up with a revoked bail and perjury charge. More seriously, he severely damaged his credibility. That will bite him in the ass at the stand your ground hearing and, now probable, trial.

Corey and her team will give no quarter in their prosecution. Prosecutors never do. Zimmerman better wise up, find a better legal team and listen to that team.

rjj du Nord

"Zimmerman needs better legal representation than what he's had to this point. "

Do you think it would be much help? It IS Florida, and this IS an election year. The media-made incident is too conveniently divisive, so I think Zimmerman will be in deep doodoo till November.

Am often wrong, tho (entrail reading course was distance learning, pass/fail).

Tyler

So you're doing the two step I talked about in the other Zimmerman threads.

1) Make outrageous claims about Zimmerman's guilt
2) Claim that you need more 'evidence' or you're waiting for the trial when confronted to provide evidence about your claims

We'll leave it at that then.

Lars

The only claims that I have made are that GZ's credibility was damaged by his lying to the court about his finances, resulting in his bail being revoked. I have also claimed that more information will be made public and that it will be awhile before this case is ended.

I see no reason to change these observations, or asking the same question: What else has GZ lied about?

Tyler

Your 'question' is akin to me asking you "When did you stop beating your wife?" in that it immediately assumes guilt.

There's no proof that he was lying about anything. Stop being disingeneous.

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