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07 June 2012


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Laura Wilson

I have heard that FOX is the 24/7 station at most military installations worldwide. Could this have something to do with the military's support/veterans support of Romney?

Between the Religious Right's impact on the military academies and the chaplaincy...and FOC news as a steady diet, it's a wonder they obey orders anymore. (Well, that is a little overstated, I know. But propagandizing the military doesn't seem like the smartest thing to do in a republic.)

Will Reks

The media centrists would not be too fond of this attack by any Democrat. It would be ruled out of bounds and Obama's lack of service as equivalent to Romney's avoidance.

I'm not so sure most veterans prefer Romney the person but perhaps he represents their interests better. Republicans seem to benefit from being perceived as the more military friendly party.

Alba Etie

Can anyone name one prominent neo con or Wilsonian that ever was active military in a conflict ? Romney will have the USA in more active wars overseas if elected. Former VP Cheney is one of Romney's key advisers . Why is it that the active Service Members would support another shooting war or wars in the ME ?


This veteran does not prefer Romney. In fact, I struggle to understand why any republicans in office today deserve veteran support.



I don't know. Like you, I just don't understand it.

It really bothers me when todays "leaders" are some of the same people who hid out behind deferments, back when their country called years ago. They could and should have stood tall. But they hid and cowered.

I volunteered and served in direct combat for a couple of years. So I believe I have some say and standing. Laura's above mention of FOX's and conservative radio's strident drumbeat, and past support of the chicken-hawks certainly is also germane.


Throw in race and you hit the nail right on the head. It's called "false equivalence" and they have it down to a science.


Never mind that the Republicans practically KEELHAULED John Kerry for being an actual war hero--remember "Swift Boat Veterans For Truth?" At the Republican Convention people derisively wore bandaids with purple hearts on them--until they had to be ripped off because they were seriously browning off veterans wholesale.

You can't beat Jose Ferrer's (defense lawyer Barney Greenwald) drunken speech in "The Caine Mutiny" for a defense of the career military man against those who only serve when everyone-else-is-doing-it. The poem "Tommy Atkins" (Kipling?) is another one.

Cold War Zoomie

Someone mentioned here at SST within the last few weeks that we in the West do not have tribes. We do. Many voters simply follow the tribe they have decided to join for whatever reason. She Who Must Be Obeyed is a very dedicated member of the Liberal Tribe - and she rarely articulates exactly why she has decided to be a member. She just is, and votes accordingly with little thought towards actual policy. Whatever the Dems come up with is A-OK.

The active duty military, especially NCOs and the officer corps, are members of the Conservative tribe, and vote accordingly.

I'm a proud member of the GDI tribe, which is full of people who *think* they are not a member of a tribe but they really are.

Tim  Vincent

Were you as exorcised about Clinton's flagrant draft-dodging?
And, BTW, we're still waiting for Obama's college transcripts.
Oh, almost forgot:
Obama's buddy - convicted terrorist Bill Ayers.


Tim Vincwnt

I guess you missed his name in my list. I was absolutely condemnatory of Clinton as I am of all draft dodgers from that era. What was your status? Ayres? Ah, you are one of the guilt by association types. pl

Charlie Wilson

As long as we are at it, I suggest:

Tim Vinc_nt. You can fill in any letter of the alphabet.


I can understand why someone who supports a war would want to fight in it. I can understand why someone who is opposed to a war is resistant to fighting in it. But
I have a hard time understanding someone who supports a war but doesn't fight in it.

Paul Escobar

Mr. Lang,

Some of your previous writings have explained the regional & cultural divides which exist in the United States of America.

If I have understood your writings correctly, then the questions you've posed have already been answered.

The parties themselves are representative of irreconcilable cultural & regional reform movements. These movements don't view their elected heads as actual leaders. Rather, they are treated as "salespeople" delegated with the task of recruiting "swing voters" to the cause.

Yesterday, Bill Clinton took advantage of a female subordinate. The feminists of New York will still reminisce about his glorious days in office because he advanced their cause (reproductive laws, planned parenthood, etc.).

Today, Mitt Romney is revealed to be a cowardly draft dodger. The veterans who hail from the south & rural areas will probably ignore this because he will advance their cause.

I believe President Obama would fail in any appeal to these veterans. There is the obvious problem of what he represents. But more importantly, the Republican movement has created multiple outlets to channel the disappointment of their members: The Tea Party & Libertarian Party...even Ron Paul himself (who surpassed both Obama & Romney in military contributions).

Alba Etie

"Its Tommy this and Tommy that and toss him out the brute -But its our Thin Red Line of Heroes -when the Guns begin to shoot .."


Totally unrelated to thread:


Dude, how you been? Just thinking of ya a couple days ago (sorry if this sounds f**kin' gay).

Re: :I'm a proud member of the GDI tribe"


[Thanks fer indulging in me, Col.]

David Habakkuk


I think you hit a rather important nail on the head. We are all, to a considerable extent, pack animals. A very fine historian, William H. McNeill, wrote a fascinating short book about this some years back, under the title Keeping Together in Time: Dance and Drill in Human History. It started off with recollections of basic training in the U.S. Army in September 1941.

A qualification I would make is that, in a mobile world, many of us belong to oddly overlapping ‘packs’. An example. The street in West London into which my wife and I moved not long ago has a street party every couple of years. This year, like many similar parties throughout the country, it was timed to coincide with the Queen’s Diamond Jubilee. Some of those who were instrumental in organising it were ethnically English – my wife for example had a small role, sourcing the hog roast and sausages. However, the decking out of the street, which was spectacular, was planned by a lady who grew up in Connecticut – her name is I think Armenian. The children’s food and entertainments, also spectacular, were put together by two Indian lawyers. The sausages (pork) were barbecued by a Jewish American married to an Australian, and another Indian lawyer.

Dancing was to a band, selected by an Englishwoman, playing fiddle and banjo tunes from the Southern Appalachians – also a spirited rendering of the tune of the American Civil War song ‘Kingdom Coming’. A fine time was had by all, and it was, in a small way, an example of the kind of bonding exercise which McNeill argues plays an essential role in keeping human groups together. As indeed was the Jubilee itself.



How about someone who thinks a war foolish but is willing to fight in it? pl


Colonel Lang,

We called for medevacs; they
called for pizza - a great divide.

USMC 65-72
FBI 72-96


And remember that Romney equated military service in time of war (Iraq and Afghanistan) with his five sons working on his political campaign. That was offensive to me. Neither Romney, his father George (spokesman for the auto industry during WWII) nor any of his five sons have served in the military.


Mr. Habakkuk,

RE: "a lady who grew up in Connecticut – her name is I think Armenian. The children’s food.... were put together by two Indian lawyers. The sausages (PORK!!) were barbecued by a Jewish American married to an Australian, and another Indian lawyer....Dancing was to a band, selected by an Englishwoman, playing fiddle.... from the Southern Appalachians"

Ah, truly a fine gathering of good, honest folk from across the globe!

Sir, I've always been curious 'bout the nature of your family name for I can't tell what ethnicity you are (I just hope I'm not sounding strangely racist).

Aye, wish I was there for the Jubilee as well.

God bless the Queen & Her Family.


"Perception" is the key thing. Those same Republicans are currently floating ideas to change the pension eligability to age 65, not one's age after 20 years of service, plus reduction of medical care costs.

r whitman

From personal knowledge: A visit to the lobby of the nearest VA hospital will reveal many more potential Obama voters than Romney voters.

Paul Deavereaux

Variation on "Hanging On The Old Barbed Wire"

If you want to find our leaders
I know where they are
I know where they are
I know where they are
If you want to find our leaders
I know where they are
They're sending another boy off to war
I saw them, I saw them
Sending another boy off to war
Sending another boy off to war

Paul Deavereaux

William H McNeill is one of my favorite historians. Would love to have taken his classes. Thoroughly enjoyed his book "The Rise of the West" (1964).



If you have not read, "The Proud Tower" by Tuchman, I recomment it. pl

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