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16 May 2012

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Dick

Just backs up what I've always thought (IMHO):
1. Zimmerman was actually attacked by the boy.
2. Zimmerman's actions that evening unnecessarily instigated this whole mess, by really poor decisions resulting in confrontation AND provocation.
And the tragedy lies in two (maybe more) outcomes:
1. The death of a young man.
2. The further polarization of the issues involved here (guns, race, laws, etc.) But perhaps all this resulting discourse will have some unforeseen positive outcome, I hope.
Only the courts can take it from here.

Ernie Pineault

I agree with Mr. Coates

"What always shook me about this case, was not the belief that Zimmerman ruthlessly slaughtered a 17-year old child, but the act of putting myself in that child's place, and seeing how I just as easily have ended making a decision to defend myself."
Ta-Nehisi Coates Atlantic Magazine where he writes about culture, politics, and social issues.

Cal

I missed the prior discussion. But imo Zimmerman was clearly the agressor and had no authority or valid reason to confront the boy. And Zimmerman was in fact told not to by the police when called them. I think going for a hate crime is a mistake, I don't see that as his motivation. Everything in Zimmerman's background says he was just a loser kind of guy....lost one job because of being overly agressive,was a wannabe police officer or law enforcement authority and got rejected. Living at home with his parents who let him run around with a gun as some kind of community protector as something for him to do. A disaster waiting to happen with this kind of guy.

William R. Cumming

PL! Agree with your prognosticating.

turcopolier

Cal

"was in fact told not to by the police when called them" No, they told him "you don't have to do that." pl

turcopolier

Ernie Pinault

"Zimmerman ruthlessly slaughtered a 17-year old child" So, if MT attacked him from behind, broke his nose and blacked his eyes amd then GZ shot him in self-defense, that was "ruthless slaughter?" pl

turcopolier

All

It seems to me that some here would not accept any evidence or accumulation of evidence that indicated that this was a matter of self defense. Is that so? pl

Tyler

So if someone is following me I have a right to attack them? That seems to be the mainstay of the comments here.

There is an insane amount of mental gymnastics required to try and 'justify' that logic.

Remember, Zimmerman went back to his vehicle, and Saint Trayvon had to double back to confront Zimmerman.

However, I don't want something as inconvienient as facts to get in the way of the canonization of a would be thug.

Tyler

Also, Zimmerman said "Okay" when the CIVILIAN dispatcher (with no authority to tell anyone to do anything) said "We don't need you to do that."

Just thought I'd throw that in there, since that fact seems never to make it into the light.

walrus

The question for me is "was Zimmerman minding his own business?" The answer to that is "no".

"Was Zimmerman seeking a confrontation?" My view is that he was.

"Was Zimmerman prepared to use deadly force in a confrontation?" My view is that he was.

The alleged facts that Martin attacked Zimmerman, even if true, are irrelevant because Martin is allowed by law to avail himself of exactly the same defence as Zimmerman - stand your ground. To put that another way, if someone pulled a gun on me, I would fight for my life as well.

What matters is who initiated the confrontation.

Since one was armed and telegraphed his movement and motives to the Police, guess who most likely initiated this unfortunate event?

To put that another way:

A Zimmerman defence of "I was simply going about my daily business when I was suddenly attacked by a crazy Black man, and by lucky chance I was carrying a firearm" is unconvincing, at least to me.

I expect the trial to be full of the the usual histrionics and will be pleasantly surprised if any shred of logic and common sense is applied by either party. I do not expect Zimmerman to be convicted.

Medicine Man

I think that Zimmerman was overcharged.

If it turns out that Martin stalked and then attacked him, I'll consider Zimmerman exonerated.

Lars

It will be a long time before this case ends up in a court room. I am sure we will be treated to plenty more leaked "evidence" until then. As we saw with the Casey Anthony circus, there will be plenty of wrong conclusions before then too.

The Twisted Genius

Tyler,

If someone got out of his car and started following me on a rainy night, I certainly wouldn't just lead him back to my family's house. I would assume this guy following me was up to no good and either evade him or ambush him and incapacitate him. The best course of action would have been for Martin to call 911 himself. IMO, Martin's biggest mistake was not putting Zimmerman down right away. Of course, he would be the one up on charges if he did incapacitate, seriously injure or kill Zimmerman... and rightly so.

Both individuals made stupid decisions that led to one of them being dead and the other's life in a serious mess.

Morocco Bama

In that event the federal government will charge GZ with violating TM's civil rights and will attempt to apply the Hate Crimes law to the trial. The Justixe Department is likely to lose in that trial, but they will try anyway.

I agree with you that this is how it will proceed, and it infuriates me to no end. It's an abuse and misuse of power. But, what else is new, I suppose.

"slaughtered" What in thee hell? That's hyperbole, and unnecessary. Slaughtered is what happened to Sharon Tate and the LaBiancas. Get some perspective.

The Twisted Genius

Why did Zimmerman wait until the next morning to go to a doctor? There is a logical explanation for this behavior... neurological shock. Zimmerman could have been in such a state that night and not have felt any pain whatsoever. He wouldn't feel anything until that neurological shock wore off. I have been in neurological shock after sustaining serious injuries. I did not feel any pain and was able to give coherent orders. The shock didn't wear off for several hours. At that point I felt the most excruciating pain I have ever felt.

Mj

I'll accept the verdict of a jury that is able to evaluate all the evidence. Seems to me there was plenty of thug to go around that night but that's just me.

Tyler

Do you realise how ridiculous that sounds? Remember that you are a seventeen year old while you are planning your imaginary tactical ambush.

Perhaps more realistically Trayvon decided that Zimmerman was 'mad doggin' him and decided he wasn't going to let it go because he was, as his twitter handle proclaimed, a 'NoLimitNigga".

Zimmerman didn't make a bad decision, he just decided to do something about the rash of home invasions in his neighborhood instead of passively being a victim.

Tyler

A gold in mental gymnastics.

In your imaginary scenario, you convieniently ignore that Zimmerman had walked back to his car and then was confronted by Trayvon, who had decided that instead of going home he was going to double back and confront Zimmerman.

As I said before: I guess nothing less than Zimmerman sacrificing himself on the altar of white guilt and allowing himself to become a victim would satisfy you, no?

Tyler

The amount of cognitive dissonance on this subject never ceases to amaze me.

It is obvious to me that a man in an obvious clear cut self defense will be subjected to higher and higher standards of what is 'self defense' simply because some people are terrified of being branded 'racist'. If live video of Trayvon attacking Zimmerman was to appear, I'd see people on here saying that "Well, it looks like Zimmerman was thinking evil racist thoughts, so Trayvon couldn't control himself!"

Also, it is more than a little scary to see the forces arrayed against a hispanic, registered Democrat who lobbied against police brutality directed towards a homeless black man. Holder's DOJ looking into civil rights charges reeks of federal overreach. I can only imagine the hue and cry directed at someone like myself or the Colonel if we were assaulted by a noble negro with a good PR firm and defended ourselves with lethal force.

Tyler

http://theconservativetreehouse.com/

The Trayvon anaylsis on this site is pretty spot on, and the connections revealed behind the actors on Team Trayvon help put things into perspective.

Medicine Man

Ernie Pineault is quoting a writer on the Atlantic. While the writer in question is sympathetic to Trayvon Martin, I don't get the impression from his recent posts on this case that he has decided that Zimmerman did the wrong thing, regardless of his choice of words. My 2 cents.

Jake

Dang Colonel you must love punishment? People are reading things into this story that are nothing more than propaganda put out by the TM factions. Like the cops telling Zimmerman to stop. It never happened. Of course the press does not give a shit either. Facts? Why report facts? Facts do not sell papers...

Just bullshit....

Tim

If being a "loser" were a crime, there'd be a lot of people in jail.
Nothing in your post describes an illegal act.

optimax

Jake
You're right.
It was a police dispatcher that told Zimmerman he didn't need to follw Martin. A dispatcher has no more authority to tell you what to do than any other person without a badge, in fact, the day people start allowing the police to give them orders over a phone or loudpeaker is the day we've gone full Big Brother.

The whole concept of hate crimes is bullshit.

The Twisted Genius

Tyler, I was a lot younger than 17 when I did my first "tactical ambush" on a bully who tormented my friends. I lured him into an area of my choosing and beat the son of a bitch with a stick that I put in place for that specific purpose. The tormenting stopped. Couldn't get away with that today.

I can certainly see the "'NoLimitNigga" choosing to confront or even jump Zimmerman. On that rainy night Zimmerman could very well have been some leather jacket clad latin punk with a pistol rather than a neighborhood watch member. If Zimmerman decided to wait for the police rather than trying to follow Martin, Two lives would have been better off. It was a bad decision.

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