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24 May 2012

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William R. Cumming

No Aussie here! But the Chinese condominium will be amazing to watch as first economics links to China are forged, then political, then cultural and immigration links.

So how does China really view the USA? Much like Australia, a largely undeveloped land mass [imagine what 100 million Chinese might build with the land of any four contiguous states in the USA] that can provide natural resources and agricultural products for the Middle Kingdom. Perhaps a century or two down the road? Or possibly sooner? Remember almost 50K Han Chinese cross into Russian territory monthly without Russian permission. Go WEST YOUNG HAN!

ISL

I was sad when the show Firefly was cancelled. It was the first show to suggest that the lingua fraca in a few centuries is chinese.

In the long run, things follow the money, and it has been shown repeatedly in history that one cannot run an empire on debt. The chinese are certainly astute students of history, are they convinced that the US debt financed empire just passed an inflection point and are trying to move things faster? Seems like it, and I wonder if the 2008 crash and lack of any meaningful reform was the inflection point?

jonst

They, the Chinese, might find that they will have worked long, and hard, and studiously, to build the very alliance that will defeat them.

Morocco Bama

The Chinese are paying big bucks for this status as the following link informs, and if you think about it, those big bucks are the U.S.'s trade deficit to them, to a large extent.

http://www.theworld.org/2012/05/why-australia-is-looking-for-a-few-good-workers/

Are you an American plumber or electrician looking for work? Or perhaps a civil engineer? Want to possibly double your salary? Well then, Australia is calling you.

A lot of people in Texas recently heard this call for work through radio and print advertisements. Several hundred men pre-registered and showed up for the “Aussie Jobs Fair” last weekend in Houston....

Speldewinde said Australia badly needs a “labor injection.” That’s largely to support the country’s booming minerals sector. Australia has a lot of valuable stuff in the ground, and a neighbor, China, that’s willing to pay top dollar to get it.....

“I’ve heard from multiple people that you can make a ton of money in Australia,” said 27-year-old Chase Thompson, who works on pipelines in Texas. “So I’m here to find that out. Apparently a lot of other people have heard that too.”

“For my position, up to $20,000, 25,000 a month,” he said. That compares to the $8,000 to $10,000 a month that he currently makes. “So, I mean it’s dramatic.”

The beaver

Should Australia choose China, will it be kicked out of Echelon?

William R. Cumming

Also the Chinese new about Australia as early as the 7th Century CE!

Harry

Do you know, I think the Chinese have some kind of real estate venture (JV) in Idaho, whereby they buy farmland and export the products back to China. I wish I could remember where I read it.

Neil Richardson

WRC:

Raymond Aron once said that the 20th century should've been Germany's century. Never underestimate what hubris can trigger. Contrary to the opinion of many around the world, he United States doesn't hold the monopoly on stupidity.

Walrus

As an Australian, let me say that it would be extremely unwise, for anyone, Chinese or American, to perpetrate, pontificate or otherwise conjure with this false choice argument, for idiotic false choice it is.

In the highly unlikely event that the Kangaroo jumped into bed with China, then Indonesia, India, Malaysia, Japan and others would be somewhat alarmed, to put it mildly, and for obvious reasons, which means that there are a multiplicity of choices and options available to AUstralia.

Positive attitudes in Australia to China range from the dreamy liberal "Asian Century" do gooders who believe we should accommodate China to the point of teaching our kids Chinese, to the mining billionaires who like the idea of cheap Chinese guest workers and the business owners who dream of hordes of well heeled Chinese tourists filling their cash registers.

Negative attitudes to China are based on knowledge of Millenia of Chinese racism, our own (racist) treatment of Chinese gold miners last century and our own experience of Chinese "Business Ethics".

My own view is that the idea of "The Asian Century" belongs with news stories about Asian tigers and Celtic tigers - media puff pieces. Romantic notions of a benevolent relationship with the Middle Kingdom need to be jettisoned along with the idea of a special bond with America - the battle of the Coral Sea and all that. Nations have interests, not friends.

To put that another way, Australian sovereignty is as sacrosanct as anyone elses. My understanding is that the "depth" of Australias relationship with America continues to suit both our interests. We are happy to entertain closer relationships with China - to a point - being that as long as it doesn't threaten our relationships with anyone else.

In the unlikely event that this situation was threatened, then I guess we would regret our 1950's decision not to develop our own nuclear deterrent, for a little while, but I am not going to engage in p*ssing contests.

Walrus

P.S. We could do with a few more American immigrants again, adds to the flavour of the stew.

CTuttle

Say it ain't so...? U.S. considering plan that arms Syrian rebels...

Wtf, over...?

MS2

It is not just one general shooting his mouth off. The English-language China Daily (more or less an official mouthpiece) had an editorial saying the same thing less dramatically about 1 month ago, with a cartoon of a kangaroo with each foot in a different canoe.

Neil Richardson

Walrus:

"To put that another way, Australian sovereignty is as sacrosanct as anyone elses. My understanding is that the "depth" of Australias relationship with America continues to suit both our interests. We are happy to entertain closer relationships with China - to a point - being that as long as it doesn't threaten our relationships with anyone else."

That's the way it should be IMHO. As one might say, it's just business nothing personal. And I could not agree more about nations having permanent interests rather than friends. Maintaining sovereignty is the first order of business for a state.

Even if the United States were to limit our support to ANZUS for any number of reasons, a range of options does exist for Asian states. For example, Japan likely will arm the Philippines provided they could work out the usual problems associated with the historical legacy in terms of public relations.

Ursa Maior

DENG XIAOPING and his 24-Character Plan for securing China's place in the world.
"Hide our capacities and bide our time; be good at maintaining a low profile; and never claim leadership."

It looks like at least a part of the chinese leadership thinks that the time of waiting has ended. It will be INTERESTING to see a multipolar world again.

Alba Etie

Our sister city here in Austin Texas is Adelaide - the City of Chuches. All the Aussie I know are all very independent .

William R. Cumming

Neil R. Looking like over two centuries of USA and China links of significance with the exception of 1949-1972! So are USA and China "interests" linked irrevocably for better or worse?

Morocco Bama

Yes, it will be interesting to see a nuclear multi-polar world again. I'm seeing visions of marshmallows roasting on an open fire.

Harry

One could argue that Rome reached the peak of its Empire with the Emperor Hadrian. One could also reasonably argue that it did not fall untill Tuesday, 29 May 1453. Thats over one thousand years later. In terms of ability to project power it was at least another 150 years after Hadrian that it lost its status as a dominate player in all its theatres. It remained important militarily and politically for many many years and was even more important culturally. We are all Roman in the West, and the Chinese have recently adopted many of our Roman ways. Even if the US empire has already peaked the Chinese would be very foolish to believe that it can be easily thrust aside.

different clue

I should think that the "better friend" is the one that does not try to pick one's other friends for one. If the Chinese leadership has just said to Australia that Australia only gets to have one Godfather whereas the American leadership has NOT said that Australia only gets to have one Godfather, many Australian people may well decide that they resent and even dread such obviously mafia logic on the part of the Chinese Communist regime rulership. Australians may well say "if we are forced to pick one, we will pick the one that never said we are forced to pick one".

Anyway, China will need Australian minerals more than Australia will need Chinese customers. If the Chinese decide not to buy Australian coal/iron/etc. to "teach Australia a lesson", I suspect there will be India, Europe, Korea, other Asian countries who will be more-than-happy to buy these Australian raw materials instead.

Also, China is about to hit a natural-resource-depletion wall. I offer the personal suspicion that China is building its military to enforce its perfect right to take whatever offshore oil, gas, etc it wants from the seabed around its Asian neighbors. Also, China plans to dam up and divert to central and northern China every river which currently flows from sourthern China and especially the greater Tibetan watershed into South and Southeast Asia. China will become a very bad neighbor and will become deeply feared and hated by every downstream and downwind country in the decades ahead.

Okanogen

Mineral resources are sold in a global market. How does the good general intend to punish Australia? Shut down the Chinese economy and its demand for raw materials? The biggest market for US steel, used machine tools and scrap metals is China. That particular Asian Tiger is paper.

job finder

Does Australia really have to choose between the two? Wouldn't it be better if the country remains neutral?

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