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15 April 2012


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Pirate Laddie

Dr. Silverman -- thank you very much for these three documents. The two analyses detail the difficulties faced by the State in pursuing this case, while the comments that followed the Fallows & Turley pieces give a great "feel" of the ego, ideology and general fear & loathing that underlie what's going to be about as much fun as a sack full of cats.
IMO, the best case would be Zimmerman pleading to a reduced charge -- regardless of the particulars of the case, a not uncommon resolution of a politically sensitive issue.


My bet? It either acquittal or reduced to manslaughter..... Not going to be 2nd Degree and resting on one phone witness is very shaky for the prosecutor. Precedence of law will take center stage....


Thanks Adam, that means Trayvon Martin indeed spoke with his girlfriend. I was wondering, obviously she cannot say this, if it isn't true. It's easy to check. Robert Zimmerman stated in his interview, she lies. George Zimmerman's call, her call, and the other 911 calls give a pretty precise timeline, and the shot of course is recorded too.

Good collection by Mother Jones (I guess they are "lefties"?). He may well have targeted young black males, since two of eight caught, one by him, seem to have given him and Mr. Taaffe (see interview below) the impression that all recent burglaries must have been committed by young black males. Interesting his 911 call history. Isn't there a better municipal institution to report potholes, than to the police? Kid can be asked who their parents are instead of bothering the police, to pick out just two. Hmmm?






Let's see, impalement might saisfy Jane and crucifixion would do for you. You really are into this. pl



This is the two step I was talking about in regards to Roy G - LeAnder, Jane, and the rest do this over and over again.

Step One) Assume the worst about Zimmerman with a made up narrative and work off that principle

Step Two) State belief in the "court systems" when confronted with alternative evidence based in reality that "everything will come out".

Every neighborhood should have someone like Zimmerman who was willing to keep an eye out on their neighbors. As a contemporary of mine put it, someone should put a monument that says "Sic Semper Africanus" above the grave of Trayvon Martin.


Pat, I should have added that I was pleased to read there was an autopsy, and left out the "liberal links". Admittedly there seems to be more material on Zimmerman than on Martin.

I am not ruling out that Martin was angry and indeed attacked Zimmerman, I wasn't there, I don't know anything about Martin besides what happened that evening. I think, I know where I would start were I Zimmerman's lawyer.

Concerning impalement or crucifixion, I may be Catholic, but I do not follow the sophistry of my church concerning. I am satisfied with do not kill.


Nothing brings Martin back to life, for him it clearly was, what Zimmerman writes it was for him, "a life altering event".

It simply feels the honor of someone who is dead should be respected, and that is my core issue here. Allow me to be optimistic, that the trials will bring us closer to what really happened in that night. It's either or:



I am a good sport, or as we say: a good looser; don't worry. Admittedly I do not like the law; the cases I read about irritates me.

Morocco Bama

The two analyses detail the difficulties faced by the State in pursuing this case

This is precisely what disturbs me. Statements like this...not because they're not true, but precisely because they are indicative of a flawed process. The implication is that the prosecution's goal is to not find the truth, but rather to obtain a conviction at whatever cost....Justice included. It's actually quite simple. Gather all the relevant facts and determine from those facts what happened. If what occurred per the FACTS was not illegal, you have no case. Anything else is operating outside the law and not in the spirit of the law. Even if Zimmerman is guilty yet the facts don't prove it, you cannot convict based off a hunch. If you do, you will be using one wrong to offset another, and you open the door to prosecutorial misbehavior and over-reaching that becomes precedence for all future cases. In fact, imo, that's already been the case for quite some time, and it's a major flaw in the Justice system.


Zimmerman assumed the worst about Trayvon and as a result Zimmerman ended up killing a teen who had simply gone out for tea and skittles.

Trayvon has a better record than Zimmerman does. Zimmerman assaulted a police officer. Why should anyone automatically accept Zimmerman's claim that he was attacked without cause?

Tyler, what is your source for the religious background of Robert Zimmerman Senior? I've tried to find it using Google and can't.



You assume "the best" about people? I guess that is why you are a liberal. My kind of life insures that I do not assume people are benevolent. pl

ex-PFC Chuck

Here's a detailed analysis of the affidavit by "bmaz," an Arizona lawyer who posts frequently at Emptywheel: http://bit.ly/HRgPDh The title of his post, "Zimmerman: Anatomy Of A Deficient Probable Cause Affidavit," summarizes his view of it.

Morocco Bama

Every neighborhood should have someone like Zimmerman who was willing to keep an eye out on, their neighbors.

Should I assume the worst, and the word in bold was not a mistake and you really meant "on" instead of "for?" I will assume nothing, and ask that you either correct it or elaborate on what you mean by "on" if you don't want to correct it. Because if you do mean "on", I don't want you in my neighborhood. I'm all for watching out for each other and getting each other's backs, but I'm defiantly against spying on each other and reporting to the FBI/DHS that my neighbor just suspiciously bought a new Mercedes and it must be because he/she is selling/trafficking drugs. I never did like Mrs. Kravitz.


Pirate Laddie

Tyler -- the "Zimmerman in every neighborhood" has been tried. Check with the Cubans about their block wardens.


"As a contemporary of mine put it, someone should put a monument that says "Sic Semper Africanus" above the grave of Trayvon Martin."

Am I alone in finding this noxious?


I prefer to withhold judgement until I have enough facts. "He looks suspicious and he's got something in his hands" doesn't cut it until I know whether or not it is ice tea.

Stop assuming the worst about me and the best about Zimmerman.



Why? pl

Morocco Bama

Am I alone in finding this noxious?

No, I find it noxious, as well. The only statement of character I wish to make about this case is the character of those who are exploiting this tragic incident for their own ideological and personal agendas. I'm not going to hang an entire race/culture out to dry for the actions of a few....namely the irresponsible and more than likely grossly negligent media and the likes of opportunists like Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson. I don't know Zimmerman and I didn't know Trayvon. I have no basis to make a judgment about their characters, and even if I did, that character assessment should not be stereotyped to an millions of people. Tyler, that's racist garbage. I can't hang with that.


Saint Trayvon of the Skittles had been suspended several times, including this last time for possessing a modified screwdriver and a pouch of women's jewelry he "got from a friend" that he couldn't name. His facebook messages were filled with him talking about selling drugs and bragging about repeated assaults on people.

Are you going to resort to outright lying now? You make it sound like he attacked a police officer seven years ago, when the contemporary account is he shoved one in an argument. He wasn't convicted for anything.

The amazing thing is that Zimmerman actually turned his life around more or less, while its obvious to anyone who's actually looking that Saint Trayvon was descending into criminality.

But yes yes, keep insisting it was about skittles and not some punk trying to "keep it real". The fact that he could have went home instead of following Zimmerman back to his car? Ignore that. The fact that Zimmerman was actually about 190 and 5'9? Ignore that as well. All that matters is a "white" hispanic killed an innocent negro would be rocket scientist, apparently.

I'll find you the link to Zimmerman Sr's Jewishness later though. I don't have the time to go through my bookmarks just right now.

Byron Raum

[1] Did Mr Zimmerman kill an unarmed man?
[2] Did he mean to do it?
[3] Did he, at the time, know that the man was unarmed?


I'm glad that you linked to BMAZ's discussion. I have a deep respect for him. And here is another excellent, thorough, and critical discussion of the charging document by a defense lawyer Jeralyn Merritt, a hard-core defense advocate. She did a lot of research on this.


Medicine Man

No, you're not alone.

James ben Goy

(2) The unlawful killing of a human being, when perpetrated by any act imminently dangerous to another and evincing a depraved mind regardless of human life, although without any premeditated design to effect the death of any particular individual, is murder in the second degree and constitutes a felony of the first degree, punishable by imprisonment for a term of years not exceeding life or as provided in s. 775.082, s. 775.083, or s. 775.084.

From the Florida Criminal Code. The PC affidavit was sufficient to file charges based on the above statute. PC is a very low standard & only requires some evidence a statute was violated and the likelihood the named subject was culpable. It was written by a career law enforcement officer in the state attorney's office to support an arrest warrant so his expertise counts, not the analysis of Douchewitz or the other armchair investigators, experienced though they may be. If a judge agrees with the imminent danger/depraved mind part, the case will go to trial. Judges seldom don't agree but if it happens, the affidavit just gets written again. And, Tyler, you seem to be focused on the race aspect of the incident, so are you a defender of the white race?


An aviation safety model might be one way of looking at this issue. This is the "holes in the Swiss cheese lining up" or chain of circumstance approach to determining the cause of this "accident".

1. Ease of access to handguns - as opposed to long guns.

2. High petty crime rates.

3. A "self help" model of law enforcement - "better to be judged by Twelve than carried by Six", Blockfuhrers, vigilantism etc. etc.

4. "Stand your ground" legislation.

5. Institutionalised racial tension - 250 lynchings recorded in Florida 1882 -1929. http://rootsweb.ancestry.com/~fltttp/lynchings.htm

6. An inadequate, but armed, White male who stereotypes all blacks as thieves.

7. A hungry black teenager who needs a snack.

8. Zimmermans Daddy is a retired judge. The DA is a politician. The police just want no trouble.

What could possibly go wrong?



I don't accept your bill of particulars in all its parts but even if I did I would not be willing to give up anything of present American gun rights. I don't trust the police or the government. pl


The comments there are amazing. Apparently there's some sort of far reaching conspiracy that the Republicans enacted to make Corey push an incompetent trial while hoping for a race war with the NRA responsible behind the scenes.

Or something.


Apples and oranges are the same fruit then?

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