Just remember - without us!

"Netanyahu's tough statement also appears to underline the growing rift between him and Defense Minister Ehud Barak on the Iran issue. Barak, who will visit Washington for talks with his counterpart Leon Panetta and other senior officials, has said he believes the negotiations should be given a chance to succeed.

Also, Barak doesn't categorically oppose 20 percent enrichment of uranium by Iran under complete supervision. He is willing to accept 3.5 percent enrichment, under the terms set by the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty. Netanyahu opposes any enrichment of uranium by Iran."  Haaretz

-------------------------------

Natanyahu's reaction indicates that these further discussions are making a mess of his desired date of attack.

Bqarak is acting more rationally?  This must be a reversion to type.

Some comgressman dummy was on the tube yesterday to say that people in Israel scoffed at the idea that the Iranians might be "rational actors" on the nuclear issue.  A similar question might be asked as to whether or not  Israelis are rational actors on the same subject.  pl

http://www.haaretz.com/news/diplomacy-defense/netanyahu-iran-received-gift-from-world-powers-with-further-nuclear-talks-1.424421

Comments

[LeaNder]

Sophisticated telepathy between Ravid - Netanayhu - Goldberg

http://tinyurl.com/Goldberg-Variations-04-12-12

The UAE Withdraws Its Ambassador to Iran, by Jeffrey Goldberg, Apr 12 2012, 9:02 AM ET

Oh, and by the way, I haven't written about the upcoming P5 + 1 talks with Iran over its nuclear program mainly because I don't think anything will come of them. Except, of course, more Iranian stalling.

Haaretz: Barak Ravid, 15.04.12 Netanyahu's tough stance further suggests he does not believe the talks will succeed.

***********************************************************
Admittedly I had serious problems with Grass' use of the word annihilation in his prose poem. But it also feels slightly unfair that concerning Israel it at least theoretically makes sense, and you can always add a little Holocaust imagery.

http://tinyurl.com/Goldberg-s-conspiracy-sources

[Matthew]

Col: It is clear that Netanyahu's real agenda is the one you articulated last week, i.e., keeping Iran poor and backward.

Iran's posture shows great rationality. Do they have some deal with China?

By agreeing to full inspections and 20% of less enrichment--under monitoring--they can continue pursuing the Japan option.

If you consider how quickly Egypt is running through its foreign currency reserves, the Iranians must know the entire geo-political situation may change in 6 months. On Egypt, see http://www.zerohedge.com/news/art-cashin-forgotten-geopolitical-risk

[turcopolier]

Matthew

Yes. He seems to have something like the "Morgenthau Plan" in mind for Iran and the Arab countries. Agrarian peasants with interesting folk dances. pl

[Fred]

To quote the Haaretz article "Netanyahu, for his part, has added that he is not interfering in U.S. politics. " This was worth a laugh.

So the Senatorial Triumvirate of Lieberman , Lindsey Graham and John McCain, support a tough stance on Iran? As the article says, they are " authorities on security matter", just like they were with regards to Iraq. No interfering in U.S. politics from Mr. Netanyahu, not at all.

When is the UN (and the 'world powers' going to demand Israel abide by the NPT and ensure its nuclear program is 'peaceful'?

Meanwhile in Israel:

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2012/04/16/israeli-beating-activist-causes-uproar-292425222/

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/israel/9205594/Israeli-police-detain-flytilla-Palestinian-protesters.html

[Walrus]

Bibi is in danger here of demonstrating the limits of Israel's alleged power. Absent going nuclear, I'm not sure that Israel could sustain an air attack long enough to do much damage to Iran.

Logistics are a huge factor in aviation. While I don't know what "war spares" Israel maintains for its airforce, I have a sneaking suspicion that without major U.S. resupply, their efforts to bomb Iran might peter out rather quickly. I'm sure the U.S. airforce would know the answer.

...And when the Israeli aerial "blitzkreig" fails to do much, what then? How many others have bet their State on a short war?

[The Twisted Genius]

There's an interesting interview with Dan Meridor, Israel's minister of intelligence and atomic energy and deputy prime minister, on Al Jazeera. He says we misquoted Ahmadinejad's statement about the future of Israel. Rather than saying Iran would wipe Israel off the face of the map, he said that Israel is an illegitimate creature that will not survive. I bet that's going over like a turd in the punchbowl.

http://www.aljazeera.com/programmes/talktojazeera/2012/04/2012413151613293582.html

[Doug Tunnell]

More "unusual access" to Israel's secretive air force on t.v. last night...

http://t.co/0zsf19jo

[GregB]

One would almost get the impression that the Iranians are dead set on making Bibi in to the Boy Who Cried Wolf.

[Jake]

When are the " authorities on security matters" going to start asking about Japan's and Brazil's nuclear weapons programs?

But I guess that Netanyahu does not think either a security threat to Israel?

[Pirate Laddie]

Sources indicate that Iran has tabled the idea of purchasing rather than producing the 20% enriched uranium that's the current "firebreak" in the West's scenario. How ever this goes over with the P5+1 (and who amongst us will be the ones to sell the goods to Tehran), it could well a spanner into the war machine that's been lubed & fueled and prepped for the summer campaign. Once the idea sinks in, I doubt that even our favorite Senatorial Stooges will be able to provide enough cover for Bibi to keep him from going down like a turd in a well.

[turcopolier]

PL

Who? Russia? pl

[confusedponderer]

The point he makes is in reference to the occasional Israeli muttering of a nuclear pre-emptive strike - i.e. 'all options being on the table'. Such talk has consequences. Listening to the urgency in tone one may be forgiven to just take Bibi and his buds at their word for a change.

Bluff, psy-op message or or not, an Israeli pre-empiteve nuclear attack would be 'annihilatory' all right. Invocations of that being 'inappropriate' in light of the holocaust can change that. So Grass has a point.

Such Israeli threats are being aggravated by the absence of any imminent threat. The Iranian bomb is always just about a year or two away - hardly what can seriously call imminent.

[confusedponderer]

I find it refreshing that some Israelis in Bibi's government do not limit themselves to reiterate propaganda and related talking points. Ahmendinajad never threatened to wipe Israel off the map.

Ahmadinejad was iirc referring to a particular sermon by Khomeini who was speaking about the crusader states - that lasted a couple hundret years, and went away.

Saying that Israel will meat a similar fate is decidedly not threatening that Israel will be wiped off the map, much less with nukes, or by Iran. Iirc the phrase used read, properly tramslated, that 'Israel will vanish from the page of time' or something of that sort.

[Alba Etie]

Perhaps we have reached a rational 'backing away ' from the precipice of "BiBi's Persian Incursion " There is a pretty good size Isreali Hi Tech "bidness" community here in Central Texas -and their relatives from 'back home " that had come for an extended stay are now returning to Tel Aviv . Most of the same high tech Israeli entreprenuers here are sending money to BiBi's electoral opponent -and all say here that this war talk has been very bad for 'bidness'
Any one have opinion who might win the next Isreali election -and what it might mean for the Likud/neocon agenda ?

[Pirate Laddie]

Oh, I've no definite "follow on" about who might get the uranium deal. Russia is certainly a possibility, the US as well, and that would probably be better in terms of controls. Hey, maybe the Israelis could get a piece of the action, I'm sure they've got some to spare!!

[toto]

PL - Col.: Well, we French people could use the cash - you may have heard that things aren't so rosy in Euroland.

Would make for a nice tie-in too. Apparently we provided nuclear technology to Israel in the 60s, why not do the same for Iran (minus the bomb bit) now?

That being said, the prospect of selling tech to basically the same people who bombed the streets of Paris in the 80s might not appeal much even to the doveish Francois Hollande.

[Anna-Marina]

Why there is any respect to Israel's condemnations of Iran and other hysterics BEFORE Israel signs the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty?
Time to ask the direct questions about Israel's nuclear programs

[Anna-Marina]

And this is an illustration to how effectively deface the memory of Holocaust victims
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2012/apr/17/detention-centre-israel-migration

[Babak Makkinejad]

There is zero chance of nuclear technology transfer from US or EU to Iran in anytime frame that would make any difference.

For one, US and EU have destroyed the legal and financial mechanisms of such deals.

Secondly, there is a history of France not honoring her previous commitments to Iran.

Lastly, France, like the rest of EU, are un-official allies of Israel.

Reconciliation between France (EU) and Iran is not on the cards.

[Babak Makkinejad]

No chance of US or EU.

Russia is alos quite iffy.

[rjj]

Was wondering when they would notice that Bibi's jihad was causing major Israel(tm) brand damage and goodwill losses.

[Alba Etie]

Mr Makkinejad,
Do you believe its true that Turkey is also inn the early stages of developing a nuclear bomb program ? And what will the Iranian response be should Turkey attempt to intervene militarily in Syria ?

[Babak Makkinejad]

No I do not believe that there is any nuclear program except academic ones on Turkey.

Turkey's path was blocked by EU who refused to fund any such activities there.

Furthermore, as long as Turkey is part of NATO, she will not need nuclear weapons of her own. Staying in NATO is a very cheap way for Turkey to enhance her security.

In regars to Syria: Turkey is not just facing Iran, she also has to contend with both Russia (quite near) and China (quite far).

I do not believe that Turkey will intervene in Syria; for political reasons that I mentioned above as well as for lack of funds and soldiers.

And if they do, I expect Iranian leaders to support the Syrian Government to the hilt.

Look, all Mr. Assad has to do is to fire a number of missiles at Israel to trigger a War with Israel. At that point, do you seriously think that Turks would be invading from North when Mr. Assad is fighting Israelis in the South?

I think not.

[Medicine Man]

Uri Avnery wrote a bit about Günter Grass in his weekly article: http://www.avnery-news.co.il/english/index.html

I thought it was interesting. A light critique of Grass' recent statements and a pretty concise rejection of the idea that Grass is either philo- or anti-semetic. Slightly off-topic, I realize, but still worth a link I think.

[Medicine Man]

This is true, but given the context I'm not sure I find that all that comforting. After all the crusader states did vanish from the page of time by being conquered by the surrounding Islamic nations.