"Islamists Protest in Cairo" WSJ

"Thousands of mostly Islamist protesters flooded into Egypt's capital Friday in a show of force aimed at pushing Egypt's military leaders to block presidential candidates who held leading positions in the country's ousted regime.

The march came one day after the Islamist-dominated parliament passed a so-called "isolation" bill that, if passed by the ruling military council and upheld by Egypt's courts, would prevent Omar Suleiman, a former intelligence chief and briefly vice president, and Ahmed Shafiq, a former prime minister, from running in presidential elections that begin on May 23."  WSJ

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An excellent example of the dediciation to democracy of Egypt's emerging new rulers.  Unwilling to allow the electorate's will to goven the outcome of the presidential election they seek to pressure the junta to exclude some Egyptians from the electoral list. 

The MB will produce a democratic government?  I do not believe it.  pl

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702303624004577342010913356518.html?mod=googlenews_wsj

Comments

[Babak Makkinejad]

That is also a true statement - MB does not have a democratic theory of governance based on the Principles of Islam.

[Fred]

Sounds like their idea is one man, one vote, one time.

[Bruno]

I'm asking the question to people who are familiar with the Middle East in general and Egypt in particular:

Do we really want today a "democratic theory of governance" in Cairo? How feasible and beneficial would it be for Egypt, the region and the US?

[stanleyhenning]

I've come to the conclusion that so-called Middle Eastern culture, including Arabs, Israelis, and others, is essentially unsalvageable unless tribal induced hatreds are eradicated, and we need to distance ourselves from this mess except to sympathize with truly positive initiatives emanating from the region, not dreamed up by us. The Syrian case is a wonderful example of these losers in action - a national leader who would essentially level his own country rather than compromise, and we should not spend a penny to help rebuild the place as long as he remains there.

[turcopolier]

stanley

I don't comment on Chinese culture. pl

[Bruno]

Stan:

I don't think any culture, even so-called culture (whatever this means in your head) needs "salvaging". Salvaging from what?

Then, there is nothing wrong with the tribal structure of a community per se. Many of our lobbies and minority groups follow behavioral patterns similar to the ones I've encountered in different tribes around the globe. (ie: AACP, AIPAC, GLRL ...etc)

The problem is not culture. It's not race. It is education. Be it in Egypt or in the slums of Hialeah,FL.

[William R. Cumming]

The culture of MENA seems to be self destruction just like the USA in the 21st Century. Abandon hope all ye who enter here?

And two major party candidates for President that either have no policies or cannot explain their own policies. That wit Ben Franklin when asked after the Constitutional convention in Philadelphia what kind of government had been wrought by the "secret" convention stated "You have a Republic if you can keep it"!

Given gerrymandering and other ballot outrages arguments pro and con as to whether we still have a Republic? AS we reach taxfiling deadline it is only 90 days or less off before SCOTUS will have determined again the outcome of the 2012 Presidential election IMO. Note for the record that there were record LOW turnouts in the Republican primaries and wonder if that might change now that the outcome no longer in doubt? Doubtful IMO! And suspect that is a precursor of turnout this fall.

Am I correct PL you have already decided not to vote?

[Babak Makkinejad]

And when grant was leveling Richmond, I suppose that was caused by the unwillingness of the Americans leaders of that time to compromise?

[Bruno]

Self-destruction? The choice of word seems peculiar if not extreme and sensationalist. The process of self-destruction of a people is too long a process to be able to gauge today at what crossroad we stand.

I don't see any evidence of actual self-destruction within the MENA region nor in the US. I might see some limited policies that could be considered harmful to the people that live in both regions. But the idea that a culture as old as the ME's or a country as big and prominent as the US is on a path to self-destruct sounds a bit extreme, simplistic and feed into that media frenzy of cataclysmic end of time.

[turcopolier]

Babak

Actually, Grant did not level Richmond. The fire is of unknown origin. On the other hand, Sherman was... pl

[Babak Makkinejad]

10% of Egyptans are Christians.

Questions for MB:

1- Can the President of the new (Islamic) Egypt be Christian?

2- Can the Vice-President be a Christians?

3- Can the Prime Minister?

4- Can the Speaker of the Parliament?

6- Should Christians be granted a fixed number of seats in the Parliament so that they are guaranteed to remain represented (sort of like the Melliyat system of the Ottomans)?

7- Are Christians citizens of (Islamic) Egypt or are they inhabitants of Egypt.

8- Can there be a situation in which a Christian could command Muslims?

An MB theory of governance ought to be able to answer all of these questions on basis of the Quran and Sharia.

[They won't be able to; in m opinion. But I might be mistaken.]

[William R. Cumming]

Bru7no! Hoping you are correct but I find Jared Diamond's "Collapse of Civilizations" persuasive. I in particular like his question "What was the person chopping down the last tree on EASTER ISLAND thinking" and of course what we perhaps could conclude was that person was NOT thinking.

[steve]

I thought this might be of interest:

"Egypt's election body disqualified 10 candidates from the presidential poll on Saturday evening, including former Intelligence Minister Omar Suleiman, the Muslim Brotherhood's Khairat al-Shater and Salafi Hazem Abu Ismail, an official said."

http://www.haaretz.com/news/middle-east/egypt-s-election-body-disqualifies-suleiman-muslim-brotherhood-presidential-candidate-1.424244

[Margaret Steinfels]

FYI: "CAIRO — Election authorities eliminated three of the leading presidential candidates in one broad stroke on Saturday night in an unexpected decision that once again threw into disarray the contest to shape the future of Egypt after the ouster of Hosni Mubarak.

"The ruling struck down the three candidates who have generated the most impassioned supporters and critics: Khairat el-Shater, the leading strategist of the Muslim Brotherhood; Hazem Salah Abu Ismail, an ultraconservative Islamist; and Omar Suleiman, Mr. Mubarak’s former vice president and intelligence chief."

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/15/world/middleeast/ten-candidates-barred-from-egyptian-election.html?hp

Now What?

[turcopolier]

Margaret et al

Amre Moussa and an Islamist parliament. I hope SCARf won't let OS run, Screw Egypt. pl

[SEH]

Hey Pat, if you see dumb stuff in China go for it! There is dumb stuff EVERYWHERE, it's just that I think we need to focus on smart stuff. And Bruno, if the problem is eduction, who is going to institute meaningful education in these areas - how will this take place?

[Bruno]

SEH:

A meaningful education system is in place in the US as much as in the Gulf. But education is a work in progress. Just a couple of observations that might illustrate just that:

As former Ambassador to Saudi Arabia M. Freeman mentioned once, there are more PhDs in the Shura Council that advises the King of Saudi than in the entire US Congress.
Also, according to data released in 2008 by the OECD, the United States remains the destination of choice for students pursuing advanced degrees in science and technology.

So productive systems are in place in both regions even if they are in constant evolution.

[toto]

Apparently the electoral commission simply decided to reject all major candidates - the MB-approved Islamist, the semi-Salafist, and your friend from the intelligence services.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/15/world/middleeast/ten-candidates-barred-from-egyptian-election.html?_r=1&ref=global-home

That's one twisty coup de theatre!

[dan bradburd]

WRC,

Two archaelogists, Carl Lipo and Terry Hunt, have presented very compelling evidence that Diamond's explanation of ecological disaster on Easter Island is seriously incomplete. Lipo and Hunt argue convincingly that rats, which accompanied the settlers from Polynesia, had a devastating effect on reproduction of local palm trees, and hence deforestation.

The point is not that human acts cannot have devastating and self damaging outcomes,or that people can act with little forethought, but that real world systems are incredibly complex, and the likelihood of unintended (indeed unimagined and perhaps unimaginable) consequences is enormous. The ancient Greeks worried about hubris for good reason.