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29 April 2012

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Babak Makkinejad

Col. Lang:

You wrote:

"...as a universal truth that should become a way of life for all.".

I think you are missing the point: they do not want to think, they want to put their minds - as well as the minds of their fellow-country men & co-religionists - on auto-pilot and return to the slumber of the last 1000 years.

They will fail no doubt, but not without first being kicked very hard by a thing called Reality which will break them and disabuse them of their fanciful notions.

Many people will suffer as a consequence, but there is no other way - one cannot live other people's history for them.

turcopolier

Babak

This is a distinction without a difference. You are just being argumentative. pl

Babak Makkinejad

No!

Catholics believe the same thing - that their religion is applicable to the entire world and it has the Cannon Law to support it.

The difference lies in a thing called Christian Philosophical Tradition.

turcopolier

Babak

The word is "canon." Yes, Catholicism also believes in its own universality, but there has not been a serious revivialism since the counter-reformation. Perhaps Opus Dei is beginning one. I am sure you know of the Islamic religious disciplines; Quranic exegesis, hadith, philosophy, fiqh, kalam, etc. So, what are you talking about? pl

Babak Makkinejad

Religious Philosophy, i.e. Reason trying to understand Revelation, has been dead in Sunni Islam for a thousand years.

That is all I meant.

tequila

The "Arab Spring," like the "Arab Awakening " written of so pationately by George Antonius, was to a large extent the result of the influence of Western elites sympathetic to the "causes" of "authenticity" in the Islamic World and a standard of purity of behavior that does not exist in their own countries.

COL - I find it interesting that you attribute the Arab Spring so much to Western forces. I disagree that Western forces could have gotten millions of Egyptians out in force into the streets to convince the Army to oust Mubarak in the way that they did. Can you go into why you think outside forces are ultimately responsible?

turcopolier

tequila

These populations were cowed and inert politically under the "boot" of their native oppressors until the Bush and Obama Administrations and their acolytes told them they should revolt and then they did. Previously, although unrest and fighting frequently went on in these countries, it was easily "handled" or resulted an a change of "deck chairs." You seriously underestimate the value of endorsement and encouragement by the
"greatest power in history." From a lifetime of experience I can tell you that the Arabs generally think Washington is the new Rome. pl

turcopolier

Babak

You are not getting away so easily. You know that Sunni revivalism is all about pietism and ijma' inside one of their sects. pl

Jake

What makes guys come out of their cubicle's and give interviews like this one, which does us no good at all? No matter pro or con this just makes us look like a bunch of yahoos....

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-18560_162-57423533/hard-measures-ex-cia-head-defends-post-9-11-tactics/?tag=re1.discussed

turcopolier

Jake et al

I agree with Jeff Stein that Rodriquez' remarks sound better in the original German. pl

William R. Cumming

So PL and others would you argue 9/11/01 was a tactical or strategic victory for UBL? Or one or the other?

turcopolier

WRC

I would say that 9/11 was a tactical victory for the violent jihadists that has led to strategic defeat. pl

Marcus

Strategic defeat for whom? "I would say that 9/11 was a tactical victory for the violent jihadists that has led to strategic defeat." pl

Two costly and foolish wars, ingrained violations of Constitutional rights (including Executive assassinations, universal surveillance of Americans, institutionalized torture) in the name of a perpetual "war on terror". Secrets of the state maintained by appeal to "national security" used to shield the Executive branch from prosecution.

We walked away of the rule of law in response to the attack and that spells defeat to a Constitutional republic.

turcopolier

Marcus

I see your point but from the viewpoint of the jihadists they have lost. pl

William R. Cumming

Thanks PL and Marcus!

One small detail perhaps unimportant from any standpoint reflected by the academic literature since 9/11/01 is that the Economics profession cannot agree on the direct and indirect economic losses caused by the strikes on the Pentagon and WTC. UBl himself used the figure of $500B in direct damages caused by a $500K expenditure.

What is now pretty well knows is the impact on the property/casualty insurance business. And the federal terrorism insurance program marches on located in the US Treasury and under a current statutory extension until 2013.

Marcus

Until the rise of the next charismatic terror leader. At the risk of being accused of giving material aid to these crazies, 'I feel their pain'.

The idiocy of the response to the attack on US could not have been scripted better to induce hatred and revenge in the hearts of the young disaffected radical Islamist.

Walrus

This Youtube video sums up the economics perfectly. An Iraqi "insurgent" fires a $10 round from a $100 82mm mortar at an American base.

A $15 million C-RAM system responds with ammunition at a cost of about $150 per second (say $5 per round at 2000 rpm)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GAK22XkEa-o

Alba Etie

Mr Makkinejad
My knowledge of Islam is very small -but there are Moslem I have met in Central Texas that contend that what Islam needs is its own 'Martin Luther' .
Is it not a possibilty that same day a reformation may happen between the Sunni & Shia ?
When I review what I learned years ago about the European Religious Wars -after great difficulty the different Christians camps learned to co-exist without warfare. ( Setting aside the present actors such as the End of Dayers & the Dominionist-- I recall that Timothy McVeigh was a member of some white only Radical Christian cult too .)
Regarding India-- it seems to me that the modern Indian State has become more pluralistic and responsive to internal political pressure- for example the Naxolites appear to be making some progress in the political proccess rather then insurrection . And it looks as if there may be actual results accruing fron the behind the scene talks with the Indian & Pakistani government - in spite of the LET and the Mumbai attack ,
The cup is half full & not half empty perhaps ?

turcopolier

Alba Etie

Every Muslim has his own Islam. Do some reading and we can have a serious discussion. pl

Babak Makkinejad

Thank you for your comments.

I do not believe that Reformation was either necessary or an unmitigated success.

By weakening the power of Catholic Church, it smoothed the way to the formation of Nation-States in Northern and Western Europe which, in effect, created new gods upon whose altar millions were murdered.

Be as it may, the Reformation, as far as I can understand it, was a project that challenged the legitimacy of the Catholic Church as the central authority of (Western) Christians.

Such an analogy does not obtain in Islam, there is no central authority. The closest is the collection of doctors of Religious Sciences of Islam among the Shia in Qum and Najaf and among the Sunnis in Al Azhar University. But these do not in any way shape or form approximate the Church: “On you (Peter) I will build my Church.”

The possibility of reform exists however, but for that both the Shia and Sunni political and religious leaders must, in my opinion, follow and further develop the ideas of the late Ayatollah Khomeini. His thoughts are, in my opinion, the best hope of a successful response by Muslims to the Modern World.

I mentioned Hindus only as a counter example to the technology fetish that so many people seem to believe would bring in a fundamental change in the thinking of people. Specifically about Hindis, I think Islam has had a more positive influence on them – over the centuries – than cell-phones; whatever form of charity there is in India that is practiced by Hindus is due to Muslim influence.

I was not suggesting that the glass is half-full or half-empty, to use your analogy.

Only that one cannot put water in the glass in the manner suggested and certainly not in a time-frame that is less than 3 or 4 generations (60 to 80 years).

Alba Etie

Col Lang
Which two books would you recommend first on Islam.
Thank you

turcopolier

AE

Read "The Venture of Islam" 3 volumes - papaerback. pl

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