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12 January 2012

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DickT

Re the ROKs in VN: The Tiger Division was a formidable presence in Binh Dinh Province near Qui Nhon. They were tough and had a reputation for brutality. Han Jin truckers could travel at night unarmed. We REMF support types only went out on the roads during the day. Others told me about bodies strung up on telephone poles, but I never saw that firsthand.

The ROKs had a big light on a hill I could see from my guard tower at night. I would watch them get probed but I could never tell whether the light was taken or not. They didn't call in Puff or the Shadow or make any fuss about it at all.

I knew their Tae Kwon Do instructor. He was unbelievably good at martial arts, but had no attitude and was a real gentleman. Some of the others though would blackmail GIs for favors. I would drive rather than accept a helicopter ride because of the "trip to the PX".

I would be a hypocrite, though, not to acknowledge that their distasteful tactics protected my ass.

jonst

They, the Clinton's, ARE "cold hearted" (sic) pimps as far as I'm concerned. And no one, or at least not I, said anything that explicitly, or implicitly, indicated that "pissing Marines" were being pimped. It was the "especially Marines" should know better comment that was the subject matter. The Col--rightly--postulated that there was no reason this contention should be so. He was indicating, I believe it accurate to conclude, this "elite" force was just like the rest of military when it came to understanding, in theory, right from wrong. Read his comments, lawyer. It was this assumption on the part of Hillary of a 'higher duty' for one branch of the service over others that was being called into questioning. I call this 'pimping'. I'm sure there are more precise terms but the term worked for me.

Joe100

Steve G -

I had no direct dealings with ROK marines, but I can note the following:

1. one of the Marine air observers I worked with towards the end of my tour had served for a while as a liason artillery FO with a ROK unit and he indicated that as he moved through troublesome villages, everyone had been killed

2. At one division intelligence briefing I attended, I recall that there were credible reports that the ROAK marines were selling rice from the area they controlled to the NVA in the Que Son mountains

turcopolier

jonst

You have it right about the "pimping." She actually has a kind of hero worship thing about USMC. She tells stories about how she was rejected for age to be a USMC JAG type and that the recruiter told her to go talk to the "dogs."

"I wouldn't give a damn to be a fancy pants marine.
I'd rather be a dog-faced soldier like I am."

3rd ID marching song. pl

Charles I

No insults please. Read my comment, please, Marine.

It says "used" to be a lawyer

jonst

Oh, I wasn't being insulting Charles...I'm a lawyer. Too. Peace.

Jonst

James ben Goy

My compliments on your precise observations, so very well expressed. IIRC, it was Shelby Steele who first attributed the cultural pathology you describe to 'compensatory self-aggrandizement,' at that point in time primarily exhibited in rap music, the reference for Steele's pithy description of the vocals. Very sadly, as you point out, the pathology has spread to every level of our society. The question now is, have we yet hit bottom, or is there worse to come?

Adam L. Silverman

To follow up on TTG's last remark: we shouldn't need training, but we are all required to do it. And do it annually during the quarterly training if not deployed and prior to deployment if one is going down range. This is the training for the Law of War (LOW), which explicitly states it is a violation of LOW to desecreate the dead. So the official rules on the books, aside from just plain right and wrong, recognizing the information operations fratricide that COL Lang and several others have mentioned, is that this type of behavior is not (and will not be) permitted.

turcopolier

All

This is from "Down the Sky," the last volume of my novel, "Strike the Tent."

"With his men in place, Balthazar went to look at the wounded Union officer.

Doctor Smith and Joe White knelt beside the man in the tall, brown grass. Smith looked up as Balthazar approached.

He shook his head and rose to take the colonel aside. “Looks like a shell burst hit him and his horse. There are pieces of the horse all over the ground over there, all mixed up with this man’s intestines. He’s missing an arm as well and his legs would have to be amputated, if it were worth the effort…”

“No?”

“No. It would just hurt him a lot for nothing. He’ll be dead in a few hours no matter what we do.”

“Laudanum?”

“It will kill him if we give him enough to help when the pain starts. He is so much in shock that it does not hurt much yet. Someone on the other side left a muzette bag full of drugs with him.”

“What does he want?”

“Ah, he wants one of us to shoot him. We don’t have to do that. I can put him down with the drugs…”

The Frenchman nodded and then walked over to the doomed soldier. The grass all around was bloody with half dried red-brown stains. There were pieces of torn tissue everywhere. Some had to be the dead horse. Its carcass lay nearby nearly cut in half. Its viscera were everywhere, and the stench of the contents of its gut lay upon the scene.

Joe White held the man’s remaining hand.

Balthazar knelt beside the mutilated man. “How are you my friend?” he asked.

The wreckage of the officer’s body was appalling. His entrails lay on the ground bizarrely intertwined with those of his horse. The yellow background of his shoulder straps showed him to be a cavalryman.

“What is your regiment, major?” Balthazar asked.

“Secon’ Wess V’ginya. Weah fum jus’ up the road, jus’ up the road…” Shock slurred his speech. His eyes were bright but unfocused. “Pleass kill me,” he mumbled. “Pleass. I kin see that I’m finish’d. One minute I was up on “Jimmy” over there.” He waved at the dead animal with his remaining hand. “Then we wur like this. My men leff me for you…”

“Do you want my surgeon to help you on your way?” Balthazar asked.

“Yess, bruthah, yess.”

“Are you a Christian?”

The dying man nodded.

“Balthazar gestured for Doctor Smith to join them.

Smith opened a bottle and poured the opium solution called laudanum into a tin cup. He filled it half full and then added a solid shot of whiskey from his own pocket flask. He held the cup to the Yankee officer’s lips.

After a few minutes the man was unconscious.

Balthazar stood bareheaded with Joe while one of the Louisiana sergeants led a few men in prayer,

“Notre père qui est en ciel…”

They covered him with a US flag that they found in his dead mount’s saddle bags."

This is how one treats the dead or dying enemy. pl

Hank Foresman

The beating of the sheep was actually by an afghanistani but as soldiers watched and smirked.

Mj

Let's hear it for REMF truck drivers! No body liked us but they sure used all that stuff we hauled up and down the road!

The Twisted Genius

And here's a notable example from history of how a real soldier treats the dead or dying enemy.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Rowland_Kirkland

Mj

WASHINGTON -- GOP presidential hopeful Rick Perry is accusing the Obama administration of "over-the-top rhetoric" and "disdain for the military" in its condemnation of a video that purportedly shows Marines urinating on dead bodies in Afghanistan.

turcopolier

mj

I suppose this is how they treated the comanche and vice versa. "A whole other country." pl

nemo

Note to marines:

First, set the bastards on fire. Then DON'T piss on them.

Got that?

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