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12 January 2012

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Jim Ticehurst

I Agree...Wonder what the Background story is...like the Abu Grab situation...We they encouraged to do this...Why even a Camera there to photo opt this...How released or made Public...Its Highly Inflammatory and while further Rile and make even more Anti American..Those in the Muslim and Middle east Communitys...Its BAD..Period...

turcopolier

jt

Every GI has a telephone camera. UTube is everywhere. pl

The Twisted Genius

AS PL said, everyone has cell phones with cameras. Soldiers blog from the battlefield. I find this ubiquitous connectivity unsettling, especially in a war zone. Is it even thinkable in our culture to keep the troops from carrying these things while on duty?

However, confiscating cell phones is not the answer in this case. This was the act of undisciplined thugs. I hope the USMC comes down on these thugs so hard and so swiftly that no soldier or marine will even contemplate such an act. This smears the honor of all who have served.

Kunuri

I live in Europe where anti Americanism has been on the rise for the last decade, however, I could win arguments over the use of nuclear bomb at the end of WWII, that Americans have no culture, dumb, violent-emperialists etc. Why even bother now with this video, these soldiers did a great disservice to America. They may be good soldiers who know their craft, but fighting a war is more than that, how are we to carry the argumant anymore that we are good and they are bad, thats why we fight them...

confusedponderer

Wouldn't discipline suggest that they leave their mobiles at base when they go to war?

Mobile phones are a security risk. IDF soldier's phone calls were intercepted by Hezbollah during Israel's ill fated attempt to re-invade Lebanon, and helped Hezbollah to gather intelligence.

Alas, considering the intensity with which the kids these days use their mobile phones one could assume they are parts of their bodies.

blowback

Unfortunately, as anyone who has read "With the Old Breed: At Peleliu and Okinawa" by Eugene Sledge will know, this is not the first time it has happened. Although two documented instances in seventy years might seem rare, it should never have happened twice.

BTW, I suspect that one reason that there have not been massive protests among Afghans over this as there were over the Koran burnings in Florida, is that most Afghans understand what the Taliban do to the corpses of their dead enemies.

jonst

Look Col, my take is every ill informed civilian in the world thinks 'pimping' the Marine Corps will make him or her look good. And I'm a former Marine. Or Marine, or ex Marine. Or whatever the politically correct way of verbalizing it goes today. I'm out of date, mercifully, on that stuff.

And Clinton, both of them, are the worst, and best, at this kind of pimping. And I am sure, in the early 70s, at the Ivy League college they went to for law school REALLY had a warm feeling for Marines at them. Indeed, for all members of the armed forces. A warm and fuzzy spot in their cold hearts.

Byron Raum

It's worthwhile reading through the comments on MSNBC. A significant number of the commenters there seem to feel that this action was justified:

http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/01/12/10143004-extreme-war-stresses-to-blame-in-marine-urination-video

Grimgrin

There have been three incidents that came to light recently, this, a group of soldiers beating a sheep to death on video, and a group of soldiers who hazed a new member of their unit until he committed suicide. I'm wondering if this is just a coincidence, or if the rash of incidents points to a larger discipline problem.

Matthew

Very funny comments. And so absolutely true.

The most distressing thing about this incident is not that it happened (a percentage of people will always behave badly), but the chorus of idiots on American websites who claim that this outrage is no big deal. The wider culture is much more deplorable than individual bad apples in the military. Hopefully General Amos will ensure that this investigation is serious.

Charles I

I used to be a lawyer, no soldier. I get a huge amount of my information about the US military from this site and its military contributors.

I have a warm feeling for your country. Marines pissing on the dead are not being pimped. Politician's warm fuzzies or lack thereof are irrelevant. Perhaps you'd be happier if Hilliary said piss on one for me.

Mind your own mind and heart before you surely ascribe others as cold hearted pimps

turcopolier

Byron Raum and Grimgrin

there's always a lot of tough guy talk from sidewalk supermen. More seriously i heard Barry McCaffery seek to excuse this on MSNBC today. Sad. i guess the "pickings" are good at Quantico.

As for these other incidents. which service was involved? pl

Walrus

Two wrongs don't make a right.

"They all do it" isn't a defense either.

GregB

The disgusting media fascists are already chiming in. Dana Loesch, the tea-bag queen on CNN said it was wonderful.

I am sure Limbaugh will be telling us that it is nothing but frat pranks, as he said with Abu Ghraib.

I am just curious to know what degenerate frat Limbaugh belonged to in order to excuse such behavior.

Limbaugh and Coulter have been defining deviancy downward for quite some time now.

steve g

Colonel:
During your tours in RVN did you ever
have any interaction with ROK Marines?
Heard many rumors or stories on their
supposed "take no prisoners show no mercy'
tactics. SUPPOSEDLY, the NVA and VC would
avoid them if possible because of their
brutality both to the cadres and civilians.

Will Reks

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2012/01/13/false_flag

Look at what our Israeli "friends" have been up to.

mj

McCaffery, the General who bravely turned the 24th ID loose on a defeated and retreating Iraqi force after the cease fire? Yea, he understands.

turcopolier

steve G

Never had anything to do with them. All the koreans were four hundred miles away on the central coast. They had a bad reputation for the things you mention. pl

turcopolier

mj

Not sure about tis charge. As i recall from my frustration with LTG Franks the corps commander of VII Corps, all these units halted in place when they received an order to that effect from CENTCOM. This allowed Iraqi cadres and staffs to escape from the "kessel" to the Basra area. These cadres were the basis for regeneration of the units that suppressed the Shia rebellion in south Iraq. If it had been me rather than NS or Franks I would have developed commo problems until I got far enough east to trap these staffs and support units in Kuwait. pl

Mj

I defer to you, you know a hell of a lot more about it than I do.

turcopolier

mj

OK but don't mistake me for a fan of McCaffery. pl

anna missed

I never (personally) saw anything like this in VN, so more likely this behavior stems from what seems like a spin off of the cultural epidemic of domineering braggadocio, strutting, and celebratory posturing that has become pervasive from sports to politics to "reality" entertainment. I don't know where this attitude came from, but I wish it would go away.

turcopolier

anna missed

I neither saw any desecration of the dead, nor did I hear of it. There were times that the number of dead enemy soldiers required mass burials. There was no avoiding that. pl

The Twisted Genius

I heard a comment on the news tonight attributed to a Marine officer that we shouldn't need training to know that this behavior is wrong. He is right. I cannot remember any military training that had to spell this out for me. There was mandatory universal training in every manner of subject, but this... never. Only the criminally depraved need to be reminded of these things. And now we learn that two of the individuals involved were non-commisioned officers. I agree with anna missed.

Grimgrin

The other incident involved the Army, 8 soldiers have been charged in relation to the death. The sheep may have involved a contractor, I'm still trying to find a report with more specifics.

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/22/us/8-charged-in-death-of-fellow-soldier-us-army-says.html?pagewanted=all

I used to know an MP who had been in the Canadian Airborne Regiment before it was disbanded. When I knew him he was still angry about the actions of a few soldiers in Somalia destroying his regiment.

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