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14 December 2011

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Green Zone Cafe

I think this is going to draw the National Guard more into Federalization and away from the State militia concept.

turcopolier

GZC

I do not agree. The Guard is essentially a state force and this will give them stronger means to resist greater integration. Why do you think CJCS resisted it? pl

William R. Cumming

In 1983 SCOTUS ruled the NG take both a state and a federal oath and that during annual training even though not officially federalized and still under Title 32 of the US Code but not Title 10 of the US Code but still paid and equipped by the feds, those NG personnel could be deployed overseas (outside continental US)for training purposes. IN the facts of the case for drug enforcement. The case is styled US v. Perpich the latter being the governor of Minnesota.
IN the last four decades many major commissions and other have studied the NG only to have few of their recommendations adopted. The NG are a fact of history not necessarily one that is understandable without that history.
Some might argue that the NG force is the lesser threat than the active forces to issues of civilian control. Others would disagree.
With liklihood of OWS renewing its energy in the spring, almost none of active duty or in the NG have training to deal with civil disobedience or riots and civil disorders.
Documentation otherwise would be welcome.

Fred

GCZ,

I think this will do just the opposite, as PL notes. I suspect in the short term it will also serve to prevent 'federal mobilization' of guard units being used against further 'occupy' movement protests. 2012 will be an interesting year.

The Twisted Genius

As PL noted, this move will put the National Guard and the states in a better position to resist further DOD assimilation of the Guard into the general reserve force. Dempsey argued that this will undermine the Service Chiefs' ability to do just that. The DOD General Counsel argued that it would create legal confusion as to whether the Army and Air Force Chiefs continue to represent their total forces.

I was impressed by my experiences dealing with the Guard. I spent a weekend very month in Maui advising our sister company, Company C, 1/299th Infantry. These island Guard units had a unique local flavor and were actually very good. Spending a weekend in Maui every month with "da locals" was just a hell of a lot of fun. The 1/299th scout platoon from Molokai was generally acknowledged to be the best in the 25th Division. I also worked with the STARC in Columbia, South Carolina on mobilization and contingency planning. Again, they were uniquely local, very professional, very proud, and a joy to work with.

I think having the National Guard Chief on the JCS is a damned good move. Chalk this up as a win for states' rights.

Richard Armstrong

WRC, you can contact the PIO of any or all of the 54 state, territorial or district National Guard headquarters to find out about Guard civil disturbance training.

Anecdotal documentation is available on the intertubz: search Google for "National Guard civil disturbance training".

It's been part and parcel of NG training since the unfortunate events of May 1970.

Richard Armstrong

It's about dag-gummed time. I'd say that 34 percent of the Army's strength, more than half of the combat power, nearly 70 percent of field artillery, and more than a third of the combat support and combat service support capabilities warrants a fourth star and a seat on the JCS for the Chief of the NGB.

William R. Cumming

Richard Armstrong! Hoping you are right and I am wrong about NG training levels. Last federalization of the NG for a riot and civil disorder was 1992 for LA riots. Declared as a Presidential disaster for "FIRE" and no Presidential disaster declaration ever for riot or civil disorder based on DOJ policy decisions. Not FEMA or DHS!

DFS

Another meaningful statistic: the proportion of killed and wounded in Iraq and Afghanistan that come from the National Guard. I can't find an overall number but judging from individual reports I suspect it's considerable.

Green Zone Cafe

I think that once the NG commanders are "in the club" and get to participate in the JCS process they'll go along with whatever federal orders come out of it. I hope I'm wrong.

turcopolier

GZC

What you don't appreciate is how strong the state political influences are on these people. Without the continuing favor of governors and state parties they are finished. pl

William R. Cumming

Twenty six (26) of the States have their Homeland Security and/or Emergency Management offices reporting through the NG STARC to the Governor. A gross violation of civil military relationships IMO. Why is this the case? Because the STATES law enforcement assets are so weak that no Governor wants to be a governor without NG assets. This reporting relationship is not because of the NG rule in delivering humanitarian assistance. In fact it means that DoD is deeply deeply involved in Civilian Law Enforcement. Active forces of course are restrained by the Posse Commitatus restrictions--18 USC Section 1385! A recent study indicates that the civil federal agencies provide at least 10-20% of their staff to supporting DoD activities, some far more of course. A largely unstudied issue of how far militarization of the USA has gone. And no even the lowliest jurisdiction (their are 90,000 units of local government)have some fully SWATTED UP capability.

turcopolier

WRC

"In fact it means that DoD is deeply deeply involved in Civilian Law Enforcement." I don'tthink that the NG when it is not in federal service is correctly described as DoD. pl

William R. Cumming

When in State status 95% of NG training and salaries and equipment and logistics are DoD furnished. During FEMA ops when a Presidential disaster declaration FEMA funds the NG ops when in STATE status.

turcopolier

WRC

I don't think the funding means anythin terms of ownership. the money is the price of admission for the federal government. pl

William R. Cumming

PL respectfully disagree!

walrus

I hope you are right about the States retaining control of the National Guards. The summer of 2013 is not going to be pleasant.

Fred

"Because the STATES law enforcement assets are so weak that no Governor wants to be a governor without NG assets. "

What weakness do you refer to?

Medicine Man

Boy howdy, I think you're right about that, Walrus. I don't think the summer of 2012 is going to be very pleasant either.

The Twisted Genius

The National Guard is comfortable in their own skin. They belong to their respective states and harbor no "wannabe" longings to be Feds. I saw that clearly in the South Carolina STARC. They are fiercely protective of their state affiliation as are the governors, adjutant generals and state legislatures. The NGB Chief, who will undoubtedly get a fourth star, will not be subject to a Service Secretary. That was one of the JCS arguments against this move. Here are comments from the president of the National Guard Association on the matter:

“I really think momentum for this started with Katrina,” said retired Maj. Gen. Gus L. Hargett Jr., president of the National Guard Association of the United States. Within days of that massive hurricane hitting the Gulf Coast in August 2005, nearly 60,000 Guardsmen were deployed. Yet President Bush also ordered to New Orleans an active duty force of 5,000, the 82nd Airborne, a move that grabbed the spotlight and chapped Guard leaders.

If the National Guard chief at the time, Lt. Gen. Steve Blum, “had been a member of the Joint Chiefs we would have never sent the 82nd Airborne to Louisiana,” Hargett said. The Guard “would have done all of that itself and it would have been a more unified effort” versus “two chains of command working to do the same thing.”

jerseycityjoan

I think your concerns are quite valid.

It seems to be that current economic conditions and unemployment are putting stress on individuals and institutions in ways that we didn't expect to experience.

We have a passive and discontent population that is being goaded out of its misery into action. I believe the Tea Party was the first manifestation of this, OWS is the second. I feel sadly confident there will be many others in the years ahead.

I would say the country is inexperienced in real-world social unrest. Whatever training the military and civilian law enforcement have received in this area will be insufficient because of the disorienting newness of the situation and because many of the law enforcers themselves will be stressed, worried, broke and resentful, just like the population they will be called upon to control.

Since 2009, month after month, quarter after quarter, year after year, the politicians kept implying things would be better soon. What will happen when the people realize the emperor has no clothes?

William R. Cumming

FEMA and DHS just took a $2 Billion cut to assistance to the Nation's first response community. Membership in the NG with the withdrawal from Iraq and soon Afghanistan may really start to look appealing economically. And of course not quite sure how rank is approved in the NG but Congress approves all Commissions in the US Armed Forces and promotions of those officers.
Perhaps someone can enlighten me on selection of Flag Ranks in the NG?

William R. Cumming

Fred! To answer your earlier question the Governor's understand their cupboards are pretty bare when it comes to riots and civil disorders.

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