Egyptian society and women.

"The young woman posted a video on YouTube in which she said that after she was detained on March 9, she was electrically shocked with cattle prods, accused of being a prostitute, forced to strip in front of soldiers and then examined by a man in front of laughing soldiers.

The military doctor who conducted the test faces a Jan. 3 hearing in a military court, according to state television. A separate hearing is scheduled for Jan. 8 for three soldiers accused of running over unarmed protesters in October, when more than 26 mostly Christian demonstrators were killed in clashes with security forces." Washpost

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See, here's the mentality. Women should be subject to "Pharaonic" circumcision or in other words, removal of the clitoris "just to calm them down." If women go out in the street and demonstrate "immodestly" in politics, well, then their husbands are to blame if they did not discipline them.  If such women are unmarried, then they are either "immoral" and "whores" or extremely willful and misguided, and their exact status must be determinied because soldiers might be accused of violating virgins if they forcibly had sex with women prisoners who were not "whores."

These attitudes are widespread in Egypt except among those in the relatvely small westernised class. There are a lot of women who share these attitudes. The same women often encourage their daughters to be circumcised in order to be "respectable."

I have asked Egyptian men why they would want want that her family should "calm down" a woman they might expect to have sex with. They reply that this should be done to decent women only.

I am completely against such attitudes toward women, but can we force a change? No. Only they can change themselves. pl

http://www.washingtonpost.com/world/middle_east/egyptian-court-bans-virginity-tests-on-female-detainees/2011/12/27/gIQAYIzkKP_story.html

Comments

[confusedponderer]

When virginity tests are a widespread phenomenon, and used to determine whether a soldier has committed "rape of a virgin" or just the non-criminal act of "sex with a whore", then rape of women in prison in Egypt by soldiers or wardens must be common. Sobering thought.

And I agree, female circumcision in Egypt could not be as widespread and persistent a phenomenon if it only was for male or Islamic domination. To only blame it on the men is implausible. The Egyptian women and their attitudes are part of the culture and women must have have their part in the practice of female circumcision, if its persistence is any indication.

I recall some stories told to me about of how in western societies, ca 1950, people held petty attitudes towards divorced women, and single mothers, and from what I was told, these attitudes were expressed with particular glee by other women. Sisterly compassion? Very far from it.

[turcopolier]

Confusedp

It is not Islamic at all. It is African in origin. I will bet that somewhere in the Islamic world there is a fatwa against it. pl

[DFS.]

pl:

There is indeed. In 2006 the Grand Mufti of Egypt pronounced a fatwa against genital mutilation. Pretty sure he's not the only one...

More conservative clerics, of course, have their own opinions. When the Egyptian government tried to outlaw it in the '90s a campaign by hardliners got them to overturn the ban.

[William R. Cumming]

The USA now has an asylum policy of granting asylum to those women faced with genital mutilation. Welcome the women of Egypt to the USA.

[Retired (once-Serving)Patriot]

but can we force a change? No. Only they can change themselves.

Indeed. It's a sentiment we need to accept for ourselves. Along with accepting the world as it is, not as we want it to be.

RP

[securecare]

That is bound to be an immigration fight that is different.