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23 August 2011


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Personally I treat the MSM as toxic waste.


Col: I've noticed that Western governments seem to be overly concerned about the Libyans trying MQ.

Maybe I'm too conspiratorial, but MQ probably has lots of dirt on Western governments. The ICC will not give him a fairer trial. But the ICC will ensure that MQ can't embarrass the West during his trial.

Patrick Lang


I think there is genuine cocern that retribution rather than justice will poison the new Libya from the start.

Additionally, Qathafy knows that the Bush/Cheney deal over his "nuclear program" was a farce and that his chem weapons plants haven't made anything dangerous in 20 years. People are worried about all that air defense stuff he bought 25 years ago? It has been rusting in the desert for all that time without maintenance. pl

Charles I

Well at least George Stephanopolous is on the ball. In a tv interview yesterday with a guest I can't recall as I was so gobsmacked by his acuity, he zeroed in on the main question of the hour:

What about Al Qaeda and the Libyans?

John Kirkman

We should have someone who speaks their language fluently sitting quietly in the corner just in case the Libyans ask for advice. It is their capitol in foreign banks, their oil to sell, their country, their revolution, their blood drying in the street.
All of the munitions acquired by Qathafi need only one clever technician to be converted to evil purpose, so the future in this country will possibly be tragic. They need to know we wish them well.

Charles I

Al Jezeera has commentary on the very subject today, although it finds banality rather than toxicity to be the headline.

"Media choices: Economics or Bachman's outfit?

The election game is back as the media turns away from political economics and towards the banality of politicians."



Col. Lang:

Thank you. Your post reminds me of Col. Hackworth's comments about "perfumed princes." The problem is that they seem to be everywhere these days.



There has even been a post on the end of history in Tripoli.


But, as discussed here, history is very much alive. But, humans are so full of denial; the historical parallels are ignored. Air power, FACs, SF, do work. I guess waiting six months to figure this out isn’t too bad.

Facilitating a stable government that rules Libya effectively and exports oil is the hard part. Unlike Egypt or England, the military and police/court/jail system have to be rebuilt in Libya. The history of Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan does show that that sending in foreign troops to prop up a government doesn’t work.

I wouldn't be too suprised if Libyia reverts to a strongman religious fundamentalist government trying to balance urban and tribal interests. As long as there is a government it will sell oil to finance its operation.

William R. Cumming

I would like the USA INTEL community to have unlimited time to debrief MQ and then publish the transcripts. How much time and effort was spent on this guy by USA in last 40 years? Make him write a book and USA seize the profits.


Now that you realize the depths of their ignorance on the matters of military issues, consider extending that state of enlightenment to pretty much everything else they do.

The MSM is the root cause of most of our problems. Democracy depends on educated citizens. The current MSM undermines this criteria on a daily basis.

The beaver



Is Everything OK on your side?
Re:Earthquake !



"All of the munitions acquired by Qathafi need only one clever technician to be converted to evil purpose, so the future in this country will possibly be tragic. They need to know we wish them well."

What? Really? Would these be some kind of wonder weapon hidden in the desert somewhere? Should we run around and warn that the next "smoking gun might be a nuclear cloud?"

Give me a break. Do you seriously believe this quatch?

John Kirkman

Many of the weapons used by guerrilla fighters everywhere in any history are weapons captured from their enemy.
Russian materials from their misbegotten attack against the Afghans are the source material for weapons killing people today in Afghanistan and Iraq. Hunters of my acquaintance routinely make their own ammo, especially so when hunting in the west where distance and targets vary in distance and weight. It is always interesting to hunt with those who manufacture their own ammo and bring several weapons, sometimes using them all. But the manufacture of weapons grade material is a task best left to those who are careful and knowledgeable about what they are doing, as some insurgents discovered in Greenwich Village some years back. Libya offers plentiful opportunity to acquire weapons of many varieties, and the future use of those weapons is determined by those who carry them.


Sadly I'm reminded of the 'internet dog' comic on this one.

AEI thinks AQ was in Libya and a former AF vice chief of staff thinks the NATO campaign means we need more fighters, bombers, etc. How about the French @ 36% of combat sorties, even the Dutch pulled 10% of the weight. Looks like we need more allies not more planes. (And of course everyone 'needs' a carrier fleet, especially if I get a sales commission!)


This http://www.democracynow.org/2011/8/24the_9_11_tv_news_archives shows just how bad the media manipulation is on US TV. Note the use of footage of Palestinians 'celebrating' on 9/11 was in reality old footage from 1993. That is criminal propaganda at it's worst.


John Kirkman, thanks for weapons 101. I am one of those guys who reloads and shoots a variety of weapons, Maybe I totally missed your point.

There is nothing particularly magic about Libya, I'm afraid, The world is awash with weapons. Did you mean to imply there is something special?

The talking heads have seemingly just discovered Mustard Gas, but they don't know much about it, I'll wager.


V V:
"Unlike Egypt or England, the military and police/court/jail system have to be rebuilt in Libya."

Libya doesn't need to fire every policeman, judge or prison guard; that was a neocon mistake in Iraq.

John Kirkman, insurgents in Greenwich Village? I was unaware there was a revolt against Mayor Bloomberg.

John Kirkman



It was, I guess, a long time ago? Funny, I still recall vividly when it ended for me; coming down final at DaNang one early morning in April, 1971. The fuel depot to the east of the field was in flames and we had been waiting for hours in Saigon for clearance to come in at all. There was, at that time, a navy pilot who had been a POW for seven years, and I had just paid my income tax.
A buddy of mine had come back in February, 1961, and over a beer in the Stag Bar, he told me this thing could get impressive, and he had been fighting with propeller driven planes under SEATO.
He was right, but it’s already forgotten, and that’s most impressive of all.

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