Wesley Clark and Waco, no, the US Army and Waco

 
The Clinton Administration involved the US Army whether the Regulars or the National Guard in the massacre of civilians at Waco?  The leadership and senior officers of the Army accepted that?  Can that be?  Can it be?

If it is, then IMO there is little that the self absorbed, half educated baboons who dominated the leadership of the US Army then and later would not stoop to in the service of self and their ambition.

I understand that the component elements of USSOCOM would prefer to separate from the Army, marines, USAF and Navy,  Well, if Schoomaker and Boykin were critical in the atrocity at Waco, then there is a good argument for that.  Soldiers should not want to have murderers in their company.

Unfortunately, that does not deal with the role that people like Clark may have played in this disgrace.

Let the CT people form a new service, secure in their belief that this kind of thuggery is the stuff of future warfare. Then, let us see if history justifies their belief that their honor is loyalty.  pl

http://www.federalobserver.com/archive.php?aid=6559

Comments

[Richard Armstrong]

I'm not certain that articles found at FederalObserver.com should be taken at face value. Quite a lot of it reads like The Onion, only less well written.

The following link will take readers to an article that explains how the Mormons control the John Birch Society which is filled with Freemasons who have direct links to the Illuminati which people can join for $95 but the only way they can quit is to die.

http://www.federalobserver.com/archive.php?aid=4086

As informative as the previously mentioned article was I enjoyed this one even more: http://www.federalobserver.com/2010/10/09/turner-nuclear-bells/

The author starts by telling us of a secret that terrifies both demons and Masons then segues into his personal prediction of a nuclear catastrophe he divined would occur on 10/10/10. I got lost somewhere in the later part about the Masonic controlled Tea Party.

["Mad" Mike Adams]

Major Military Fiascos during Democratic Administrations with Jerry Boykin involved.

Desert One - Pres. Carter
Blackhawk Down - Pres. Clinton
Waco - Pres. Clinton

[J]

Colonel,

I believe that is the movie that the article refers to:

Waco - A New Revelation

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PCblw0_ls7M&feature=related

The movie is just under 2 hours in length.

Some things keeps rolling around in the back of cranium, namely will those involved be forced to see the end resultant human wreckage of the burnt and twisted remains of the small children mutilated by the use of the CS gas? Will the 'hole' that allows for then and today's continued misuse of military personnel and military hardware under the guise of the 'drug war' ever be brought to a close?

[J]

Richard Armstrong,

If you will notice, the federalobserver cites a Counterpunch 1999 article as its source. Surely you do not lump Counterpunch as a tilfoil, do you?
Counterpunch's original article:
http://www.counterpunch.org/waco2.html

[jr786]

"... their honor is loyalty."

Yikes, Colonel.

[Medicine Man]

Sorry for going off-topic but I saw this article on the BBC and wondered what was happening in Turkey: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14346325

[J]

Colonel,

Since the State of Idaho had manslaughter filing against the FBI Agent Horiuchi for his killing of Mrs. Weaver and her baby at Ruby Ridge, why did the Bureau use him and the other Bureau agents involved in Ruby Ridge once again this time at Waco? Surely the Bureau had other 'sniper' certified personnel who could have filled their Waco blue team positions. Why did the Bureau use personnel who were carrying baggage from an earlier botched Bureau operation? I don't understand that one. Horiuchi has never had to serve on day in incarceration for what the State of Idaho termed and still terms Manslaughter.

[Anonymous]

"Soldiers should not want to have murderers in their company."

And what about those splc loving ideologues from the Army who devise rationales for the murderings? Should soldiers want their company?

Ok, I understand I will have to find myself a box and then wait some ages inside it until released (if ever) by one of those liberating posts by good old General Amnesty. Patience and hope. Onwards to the dungeons, Anonymous! Pip pip!

[Richard Armstrong]

"J", you have me at a loss as I do not know what a tilfoil is.

The original article at Counterpunch mentions two un-named, un-identified Army officers of unspecified "senior" rank had met with Gov. Richard's. The article then states that one of those two officers had "reconnoitered" the Davidian compound. I believe they used the word "reconnoitered" because it sounds very military and beligerent. The authors then state one of the officers made a statement to Richards about "taking out" the leader of the Davidian's operation.

So in a nutshell, the Counterpunch authors claim to know what an officer whose name and rank they could not discern said to the Governor of Texas. I find this very hard to believe.

If "tilfoil" means "without merit" then yes, I believe that to be true about the Counterpunch Waco article.

[Richard Armstrong]

One last comment. I find the erosion of Posse Comitatus and the establishment of USNORTHCOM both to be very frightening.

[euclidcreek]

There is lots of good information available on Waco; citing the Federal Observer is fine if one wants to move the discussion into the area of space aliens and Elvis sightings. Doesn't take much to derail a discussion on uncomfortable subjects.

[Jane]

A local retired FBI agent said they went in because of what they picked up from listening devices as to activities in the compound.

[Abu Sinan]

"... their honor is loyalty." Yikes indeed. Not sure everyone caught that reference.....but it jumped out at me. Rough linkage there.

[William R. Cumming]

This is not an attempt to whitewash because my knowledge is only based on open sources.
But my belief is that no active duty military were involved in any way at WACO who were in the chain of command. The Chain of Command ran through the AG and ATF and not the FBI. My belief is that the Reno Me Culpa was intended to accomplish two primary things. First, exonerate an incompetent President and WH from any blame. Second, to prevent outsiders from understanding how mismanaged, and incomptent was the DOJ that RENO found outside of SG's office and the TRIAL Divisions (CIVIL, TAX, ANTITRUST, CRIMINAL, ENVIRONMENTAL & Natural Resources)including organizations like the FBI, INS, DEA, Adminstration, Bureau of Prisons, Office of Justice Assistance etc etc. Imagine trying to manage an organization with over 100,000 FTE and over 44,000 lawyers. DOJ should be reduced to conducting the nation's litigation arm including controlling and staffing the units in the litigation sections of the Departments and agencies, and developing legal policy and defending the Constitution against all others and in this case meaning the rest of the Executive Branch which with 10,000-20,000 politically
vetted positions could not much care whether their actions are Constitutional. Always remember a First Principle of Constitutional law--The Constitution of the US was actually written and adopted during a period that can only be described as an Emergency. IMO at least.

[J]

Richard Armstrong,

Agreed. It should frighten all our fellow citizens. The Posse Comitatus Act was intended as a check against the broadsword of war being turned inwards on our nation's citizenry. NORTCOM was IMO a ill-conceived, un-thought out knee-jerk decision by both DoD and the White House.

Instead of creating all the monster boondoggles we have witnessed growing out of D.C. post-911, had they held to account those who were supposed be responsible for certain National safety duties (i.e. NORAD CC, FAA, OSD, etc.), if they had engaged their brains (and their spanking rods) instead of their knees, maybe we would not have had, and are now having to endure the national humiliation of DHS, TSA, etc. go off on their binges with their radiating, groping, and scaring our nation's elderly and young whose only crime is that they are trying to get from point A to point B. These boondoggles that D.C. has hoisted upon U.S., has IMO not made U.S. safer, but to the opposite have [plural] made us more vulnerable. When you have a national population that is intentionally scared and on a constant basis kept scared by their government, critical safety items for National Security then fall through the cracks.

[Mishkilji]

COL--

The problem you described has gotten worse since Waco.

Now there are contractor companies that are only a attack helicopter battalion away from the having the capabilities of a MEF.

Reno today could turn to the "private sector" and get a wealth of GEN Clark-style experience.

This will become murkier as violence starts spilling across the Mexican border.

Watch.

[J]

Colonel

Now that we your blog readership have had our duh moments, time for you to chime in with your words-o-wisdom.

On a very serious note, I'm scared as hell for our kids, and our nation's future children having to endure some of the horror that appears lurking on our nation's horizon, a government that further walks down that slippery-slope with its blinders on. Scares the crap out of me when I think about what our kids will have to endure.

[John Minnerath]

I wasn't aware the regular military was so closely involved in what went on at Waco.
The fact that Posse Comitatus can be bypassed so easily is scary shit indeed.

[VietnamVet]

Colonel,

I would have instinctively said that tarring Gen Wesley Clark with Waco as nutcase paranoia.

But, with three days to go, it seems the USA is going to default. Rather than pumping up the economy with jobs for Americans or using the Presidency to protect the government’s full faith and credit, this debacle is being played out as a Grand Scheme to get Americans to accept Austerity and a continued Depressed Economy and to enforce the transfer of our wealth to the Elites.

Sooner or later, there will be an incursion into Mexico to control the spreading violence into the US. We have not learned a thing in my lifetime. The only achievement will be the profits the Contractors make while screwing the operation up.

[JMH]

SWAT teams used to be for NY and LA. Now every medium sized city has one, mostly spun up with Bush era homeland security funds. Got a warrant for possession with intent in Kansas City? You may have an SAS style stack dynamicly breaching your living room at 2am.

[J]

JMH,

Medium sized city? Try most College Campus PDs around the nation now have their own SWATs. Seems that PDs nation-wide feel 'left out' if they don't have their own SWAT, not only that but most PDs now have their 'own snipers' too, complete with their own matching wet-n-dry Ghillie Suits. I have some good friends that are snipers on medium-size Texas metro PDs, but their main specialties are Homicide detecting with a Ghillie as an assigned extra-curricular duty by their PDs head cheezes. Some have prior military training/experience, some don't. Just don't get in their cross-hairs, cause most of them are crack-shots, and some have had experience with being given the order to let loose their volley. It's no game to them, they play for keeps.

I hate the militarization creep that has swept our civilian law enforcement sphere, its becoming more and more that a 'peace' officer are dinosaurs. It's when their hardware melds with the militarized mindset that they then become dangerous to themselves and those around them, as they then think they're military when they aren't, they are 'playing' soldier like little boys in their own minds eye. Dangerous.

[walrus]

Wait till the riots start; then you will discover that the "fusion" of the military with local law enforcement was a very bad idea.

[John Minnerath]

We see this everywhere now. Young SS wannabes strutting around in tight fitting uniforms wearing a belt of hardware that must weigh 25 pounds.

Even out here in the middle of no where we have it. The closest town a few years ago was a pretty quiet logging and cattle town. They farmed out the PD duties to the County SO and now 6 young skinheads with perpetual scowls patrol this place of about a thousand people 24 hours a day.

What's really scary is that there are a lot of people who think this is the way it should be.

[JustPlainDave]

The charge against Horiuchi was filed in 1995.

[WILL]

Thanx A Sinan, i had never heard of the phrase. i didn't understand its implication:

from Amazon
"Their Honor Was Loyalty!: An Illustrated and Documentary History of the Knight's Cross Holders of the Waffen-SS and Police, 1940-1945 [Hardcover]
Jost W. Schneider (Author)"