« Who would Stay? NJ blog - 19 July, 2011 | Main | Government Spending: How it Affects US (us being Americans or people living in America) »

19 July 2011

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

WP

Many of us who live in Atlanta are very familiar with Herman Cain. He has been a radio entertainment talk show host on WSB Radio for years, often playing as Neil Boortz's second-voice during shows. He is a clever entertainment entrepreneur who, as a black man, has tried and succeeded in appealing to the nitch audience of lower-middle class white racist men who seem to get great pleasure from a black man who plays them to confirm and enhance their racist stereotypes.

It is laughable that anyone would seriously consider him a suitable presidential candidate.

J

I lay a lot of the blame (ignorance, and the refusal to learn that they maybe wrong) on the Rev. John Hagees and Pat Robertsons. Both are financially subsidized by the Israeli far right. There have been and continue to be a bumper crop of Hagee/Robertson wannabes who people not knowing any better take what they say as gospel.

Roy G.

Well said, Col. I especially like the last two sentences.

Regarding the 'overseas adversaries,' I am convinced that Murdoch's News International is attached to the heart of this hydra, and the unraveling of Murdoch's criminal enterprise will reveal lots of dirty links and common cause between NI and the politicians and think tanks who have been making hay off this long con / smear job.

Matthew

"Does that make them a threat to the Republic? No, it is more likely to make them right wing candidates for office."

LOL. But the answers to both points is "yes."

walrus

Well said Col. Lang, but it begs the question; since Islam is a religion of laymen with no central authority, exactly what are we doing to convince individual Muslims to cleave to at least the more materialistic parts of our world view as an antidote to Wahabism?

Two worthy contributors here have advanced the "clash of civilisations/religions" argument recently and I apologise for having made an animated and perhaps intemperate response to both of them.

The source of this intemperance is the belief that the Cold War was ultimately won by information in the broadest sense, not armaments. We broke the communist enemy's will to fight. We did it by conclusively demonstrating that a communist command economy was terminally inferior to free market capitalism.

I therefore ask, where are the similar efforts to win Islamic adherents to Western ideals? If there are no programs, why not? Could I also be forgiven for believing that American policy deliberately seeks to antagonize Muslims everywhere?

What readers may not be aware of is that one of the enablers of victory over Russian Communism was what was called "The Cultural Cold War" - slang for the huge intellectual battle over the mind share of Eastern Bloc peoples.

This was a huge propaganda effort funded by America and the West to convince target audiences that our belief, political and economic systems were superior in terms of producing a better quality of life for the average man. It was successful.

Few Americans will be aware of this because the battlefields for the hearts and minds of Eastern Europe were rarely on American soil, and in any case the CIA was prohibited from propagandising the American people. In Australia on the other hand, I saw much of these operations as a child.

There are apparently few articles on this program, or I'm too lazy to find them:

"Agency files reveal the true origins of the Berlin conference. Besides setting the Congress in motion, [the Berlin conference in 1950] helped to solidify CIA's emerging strategy of promoting the non-Communist left--the strategy that would soon become the theoretical foundation of the Agency's political operations against Communism over the next two decades."


https://www.cia.gov/library/center-for-the-study-of-intelligence/csi-publications/csi-studies/studies/95unclass/Warner.html

A rather derogatory left wing article can be seen at the link below:

"U.S. and European anticommunist publications receiving direct or indirect funding included Partisan Review, Kenyon Review, New Leader, Encounter and many others. Among the intellectuals who were funded and promoted by the CIA were Irving Kristol, Melvin Lasky, Isaiah Berlin, Stephen Spender, Sidney Hook, Daniel Bell, Dwight MacDonald, Robert Lowell, Hannah Arendt, Mary McCarthy, and numerous others in the United States and Europe. In Europe, the CIA was particularly interested in and promoted the “Democratic Left” and ex-leftists, including Ignacio Silone, Stephen Spender, Arthur Koestler, Raymond Aron, Anthony Crosland, Michael Josselson, and George Orwell.

The CIA, under the prodding of Sidney Hook and Melvin Lasky, was instrumental in funding the Congress for Cultural Freedom, a kind of cultural NATO that grouped together all sorts of “anti-Stalinist” leftists and rightists. They were completely free to defend Western cultural and political values, attack “Stalinist totalitarianism” and to tiptoe gently around U.S. racism and imperialism. Occasionally, a piece marginally critical of U.S. mass society was printed in the CIA-subsidized journals."

http://monthlyreview.org/1999/11/01/the-cia-and-the-cultural-cold-war-revisited


To put it another way: we successfully ran highly sophisticated public relations and information warfare between 1946 and 1986 against an infinitely more capable and dangerous enemy than Wahabism and won.

Fast forward to 2001 - 2011 - and all we can come up with is: "They hate us for our freedoms?" and similar clash of civilisation BS? Where, for example, was our instantaneous and heartfelt support for the Arab Spring - complete with humanitarian airlifts of wounded protesters to American military hospitals? Our parents did much better, it is almost as if we are being set up to fail.

Patrick Lang

walrus

"what are we doing to convince individual Muslims to cleave to at least the more materialistic parts of our world view as an antidote to Wahabism?"

Ah, well, that's not fair. I can't give you the answer. pl

Grimgrin

What exactly do the people purveying this to the public imagine will be the result if they succeed in convincing the majority of people of the existential threat posed by Islam?

That's the question that I keep wondering about. Do they want to set up a program of forced conversions? A repatriation program? Do these people have any idea of the kind of fire they're playing with here?

Jay Gould

walrus

With all due respect, your line of thinking seems to run parallel to the Gaffney-esque conspiracism condemned above by the Colonel, whereby a nebulous Salafist conspiracy is fingered as the nexus of terrorism in the Islamic world.

Are you sure? Where is the objective evidence to support this radical thesis? The IRA was nominally Catholic; shall we seek to eradicate Catholicism as well?

Fred

"We broke the communist enemy's will to fight. We did it by conclusively demonstrating that a communist command economy was terminally inferior to free market capitalism."

What hog wash. The Russian's mis-managed their own economy. Propaganda didn't change minds, the ability to actually exercise 'freedoms' and change government- via elections; - as well as a government that would create programs for 'people' - like welfare, food stamps, education - helped provide a balance to provide that 'better quality of life' that changed minds. It wasn't the 'invisible hand' of the free market or propaganda.

As to mismanaging economies, thank goodness none of that soviet style mismanagement has happened in America, Iceland, Greece, Japan, Argentina.... At least the 'superior' free market oligarchs in Russian have made 'improvements' on that command economy they used to have. Of course in 'free market' Michigan our 'victory' is 10% unemployment and a share of 13 Trillion in debt. God bless the tax cut Christians who put return on money ahead of return on work. Help the poor? The most influential preacher to say - and live- that creed got nailed to a cross. If only he had only "... cleave(d) to at least the more materialistic parts of our world view..."

A PR campaign won't win when we have Gitmo, Abu Ghraib and tax cuts first - and foremost.

walrus

Col. Lang, thank you for your thoughtful and comprehensive answer. I feel better now ;)

Fred, the PR campaign didn't "win" anything against the Russians. It showed them that they had lost and should give up trying to make a command economy perform like a free market economy.

Ask the people of North Korea what they think.

- They are told that they live in the best of all possible worlds even as they starve to death and they have no way of discovering otherwise, so they keep stumm. .

"The pen is mightier than the sword"

"The truth shall make you free"

“You can resist an invading army; you cannot resist an idea whose time has come.”

Information matters.

Fred

'Information matters' - I agree; and we aren't getting it from 'free market' sources from Rupert Murdoch's media empire to the well funded think tanks attempting to overturn estate taxes in the US to the business elite who justify millions in executive compensation while shifting cost to rank and file employees.

I don't care about the people of North Korea, I care about my people - the ones being poorly led yet abundantly fed plenty of Ayn Rand style virtue of selfishness propaganda by well compensated 'free market' mavens.

ThomasOfNY

It is nice to see that the narrative that we have been cultivating that "we are not at war with Islam" is being undermined by such imbeciles as Cain and others for political reasons (though Cain may have something else motivating his statements).

TamBram

I don't really agree, although I see what you are saying, Colonel. Countries as different as the US (predominantly Christian), India (Hindu) and Thailand (Buddhist) all have Muslim terror problems. Where are the Christian terrorists in Egypt? Or the Hindu terrorists in Pakistan? Or the Buddhist terrorists in Afghanistan? Even though the Muslims treat those people like dirt in their countries. Where is *any* predominantly Muslim country that does not treat non-Muslims like dirt? How can anyone like Muslims then?
The United States is stupid to take in Muslims, I'm sorry. Global history and current events demonstrate this to a T. There will be blood in the streets when Muslims get to 5% of the population, just like you see now in Europe or Thailand.

Patrick Lang

Tambram

And what are you, a brahmin? pl

Matthew

TamBram: Your examples are worthless. America is not Europe. In Germany, a Turkish family can go into the Third Generation and still lack German citizenship. That is a disgrace. In contrast, we do not have Islamic ghettos because we are embarrassed by our racism--unlike many other countries.

BTW, you clearly underestate the power of American culture to overwhelm every import.

And we've all seen this show before. Recall the fear-mongering about Roman Catholics: Rum, Romanism, and Rebellion?

You don't think Muslim American men play fantasy football? I have personal knowledge that many do.

steve

Cain's bigotry is an absolutely breathtaking example of how far downhill our political discourse has come.

To be more precise, the lack of media attention to that bigotry is what is breathtaking. I am awed.

Fred

Tambram,
"... all have Muslim terror problems"

I think this is incorrect, the US has a minor terror problem, some of which is caused by Muslims. Ten to fifteen thousand of our citizens are murdered every year; not by 'Muslims' but overwhelmingly by fellow Americans. We kill another 40,000 of our fellows on the highways each year - certainly those deaths dwarf all the 'terrorist' killings of Americans.

walrus

Tambram, the odd alleged "Islamic" violence I see in Australia is either drug/gang related or remnants of tribal attitudes that treat women as property.

The police have put almost all of the ringleader clowns in jail and they tell me that the rest cry for their mothers when confronted.

We are watching this particular version of Hatfields vs. McCoys with considerable delight. Not a week seems to go by without a shooting:

"EVEN by their own turbulent standards, the past year has been full of drama for the Chaouk family.

Two sons locked up, their family home in Brooklyn turned over in a high-profile raid, a cousin charged with murder and, now, the death of the family's patriarch, Macchour."

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/news/victoria/a-deadly-rivalry/story-e6frf7kx-1225905079773

I see nothing in Indonesia or Malaysia apart from Saudi financed cell activity. The bulk of the natives there are peaceful and easy going. We hope to keep it that way.

TamBram

Col.,
Yes, I am a brahmin. So I know about Koranic-inspired violence--we have experienced it for 1000+ years in India and it is still happening. So I don't romanticize these people.

Others,
While I live in Virginia I have spent time in Australia. Who are the hooligans there? Muslims from Lebanon and Somalia are doing most of the attacks, aren't they? Why is Australia so politically correct so as to take in these people--are there prisons so empty?

Babak Makkinejad

TamBram:

I believe the violence has been coming from the Hindus more recently; say since the Partition.

The 2002 Gujarat massacres of Muslims by the Hindus come to mind; aided and encouraged by the various Hindu politicians of the ruling party at the time. The Hindu police was also widely complicit in the murders, rapes, etc.

And then, of course, we have the splendid example of the tolerance and Rule of Law when members of the Congress were out in the streets of Delhi, inciting Hindus to burn, rape, kill the poor Sikhs after the assasination of Mr. Gandhi.

When will Hindus stop carrying out - what are in effect pogroms, against (laegely Sunni) Muslims in India?

Per-chance, are the inspired by the violence of the Gitas: Chapter 11: "Now I have become Death, the Destroyers of Worlds"?

Babak Makkinejad

Sorry: meant "Mrs. Gandhi".

Babak Makkinejad

Walrus:

In principle you are correct in alluding to the desirability of a positive message, if you will, from your so-called "West" [I imagine by this you mean NATO minus Turkey, no? A Christian Club]

But as things stand now, the message of "NATO minus Turkey" seems to be this:

We reserve the right to bomb you and initiate wars against you, we disrespect your heathen Traditions, and - by the way - learn to love the Jewish Apartheid project in Palestine.

Muslims are not anyless materialistic than Christians or Hinuds - that line of argument will get you exactly Nowhere.

J

steve,

Cain's 'outbursts' in the press are 'designed' to garner funds from the Israeli lobby types. Tie his anti-muslim comments with his 'you mess with israel and you mess with the u.s.' statement. See the 'design'?

Fred

Tambram

"...are there prisons so empty?"

There's big money in 'free market' prisons. Check the NPR interview about ALEC model legislation, with the prison industry being a big part of it.

http://www.npr.org/2011/07/21/138575665/national-chairman-of-alec-responds-to-report

walrus

Tambram:

"While I live in Virginia I have spent time in Australia. Who are the hooligans there? Muslims from Lebanon and Somalia are doing most of the attacks, aren't they? Why is Australia so politically correct so as to take in these people--are there prisons so empty?"

Tambram, we have a long tradition of migration in Australia, around Fifty percent of the population were either not born here or are the Children of First generation immigrants.

Our current immigrant bugbear are "lawless Sudanese". Before that it was "Lawless Lebanese", and before that it was "Lawless Vietnamese", followed by Greeks, Italians, Croatians, Serbs, Irish, etc. etc. etc..

Each group has tried to bring its ethnic and social problems with it - which is the only thing we won't tolerate. Beer, football and public school education for their kids seems to blend them in pretty well after a while.

We have yet to see Islam used as a justification for serious crime, unless you count someone yelling "God is great" as the police bust down the door of their drug dealership.

The comments to this entry are closed.

My Photo

February 2020

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
            1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
Blog powered by Typepad