The division of the Holy Land - gdledell

 
Charles - I am a dual citizen of Israel having lived there in the 1980's and I have been going back and forth to Israel twice a year for the holidays since 1956 to visit my relatives - all 37 of them live in the settlements. You ask what Bibi should have said - here is my answer. We are living in momentous times and the world is changing rapidly. Some of it good and some not so good but that is the nature of change. Israel and the United States must remain ahead of that change to remain strategically viable. To that end President Obama has rightfully committed himself to help move the Arab world towards democracy and I believe he will lead other nations in a similar direction. Israel also must do her part to help this rapid change become positive. To that end, I propose to you, our Palestinian and Arab brothers an historic opening for Peace. In the negotiations, I will be guided by these principles: All humans deserve dignity and opportunity be they Arab, Jew or other. I thus commit myself and Israel to a peace agreement that is just and allows the Palestinians to enjoy their lives with dignity and honor. I believe Mr. Abbas and Mr. Fayyad are honorable men who are capable of leading their people to peace. I propose that a border be delineated between us that will correspond to the 67 borders with the following modifications:

1 – Alfei Menashe will be ceded to Israel

2 – Ariel on a more or less straight line to the west would be ceded to Israel and would include the villages of Kiryat Revava, Netafim, Barkan, Elkana, Shaare Tikva and Etz Efrayim. However, this is conditional on Israel ceding the aquifer under Ariel to Palestinian control.

3 – Modiin Illit and the small communities to its west will be ceded to Israel.

4 – The bulge west of Mevo Horon will be ceded to Israel.

5 – Givat Zeev, Givon Hachadasha, Ramot Alon, Ramat Shlomo, French Hill, Pisgat Zeev and Neve Yaakov will all be connected by a road to Route 1 in Israel and ceded to Israel. An overpass road will connect Ramallah, Beit Hanina, and Shuafat with a Route 1 overpass to Abu Dis and points south.

6 – Maale Adumim will be ceded to Israel with route 1 serving as access to Jerusalem. However, Kfar Adumim will remain in Palestinian territory

7 – Har Homa and Gilo will be ceded to Israel however the territory exclusive of the built up areas will go to the Palestinians. It means these two towns can build up but not out. East Talpiyot will be ceded to Israel.

8 – The green line will be adjusted north enough to allow a road connecting Beit Safafa to Sur Bahar and thus to Bethlehem and the rest of East Jerusalem. Har Gilo would be in Palestinian territory.

9 – Betar Illit, Neve Daniyel , Efrat, Bat Ayin , Migdal Oz and surrounding towns would be ceded to Israel.

10 – A huge swath of the Negev will be ceded to the Palestinians south of Gaza. An area west of a line from road 2211 south all the way to route 211 and east to route 40 near Be’er Sheva. The Jews of Israel are never going to populate the Negev so turning it over to the Palestinians is no big loss.1

11 – Two nuclear power plants would be built and owned by the International community and run by the IAEA to provide power for an expanded Gaza and one for the West Bank. The International community would also provide two massive desalinization plants based in Gaza and powered by the nuclear plant. The expanded Gaza would provide room for Palestinian refugees who return home.

12 – A rail line would be built from Gaza through the Negev territory of the expanded Gaza and run just north of Be’er Sheva to the west bank with appropriate overpasses (or underpasses) to allow Israeli passage This rail line would then connect to Hebron, Bethlehem, Abu Dis, Jericho, Ramallah, Nablus, and Jenin.

13 – The implementation of the Gaza expansion and rail line would be deferred until 3 years into a unified Palestinian government and approved by the UNSC.

14 – In the old city of Jerusalem, the Jewish, Armenian and Christian quarters would be ceded to Israel. The Western Wall and Temple Mount and mosques would be admiministerd jointly.

15 – Palestine will be demilitarized to the extent no heavy weapons are allowed. (ie no tanks, artillery, fighter planes etc). It will have control of its airspace.

16 – Nato troops will patrol the Jordan Valley but will not have a say in who or what goes in or out of Palestine – they can observe and report. This is subject to a 5 year limitation under UNSC auspices.

I believe this is a fair and just division of the land both our peoples love. At the conclusion of the peace agreement we will jointly recognize the nature of each of our peoples states, one Jewish and one Palestinian. Last but not least, we cannot accommodate a return of the Palestinian refugees to the new shrunken Israel. However, we recognize their plight and apologize for our role in their flight. I am sure the new Palestinian state welcomes their return and hope and pray that those who want to stay in their new countries are allowed citizenship and dignity of opportunity. Israel will go to the UN to set up a commission of reparations for Palestinian refugees that Israel will contribute sizeable portions and hopefully so will other countries. To end this long speech I ask all our Arab neighbors to grab our hand of peace so that all peoples can prosper and grow. It is what the G-d of all of us would want. Thanks You.  gledell

Comments

[William R. Cumming]

Suppose an international effort started to Internationalize the HOLY LANDs! If that happened what would happen?

[blowback]

Yet another Zionist spouting the old land for peace bilge, i.e, "We'll take your land but we won't allow you to live in peace".

[J]

blowback,

I propose a counter offer to mr. gledell's -- use the 67 border delineation as stated with no 'modifications'. In other words, what the U.N. said at the time in 1967 goes as is -- period. If the parties that be don't like, they can lump it.

[bth]

I am inclined to hear more.

What would it mean to an Arab Muslim or Christian living in Israel?

[Jackie]

Gee, I thought I was the only one with a negative perception of this plan,

It seems a little to one sided.

[eakens]

This is just like the oil cos. which raise gas prices and then drop them marginally to make everybody feel good.

This shouldn't be up to the Israelis if any there will ever be peace.

[Kieran]

I have a better idea. If in your view this really would be a "fair and just division of the land" as you put it, how about the Israelis take the bits of the West Bank on offer, plus the Super-Gaza you envision (based on the desert that for some wholly unaccountable reason Israelis "are never going to populate"), while the Palestinians get the rest? Please, pull my finger of peace.

[Marcus]

Awful lot of ceding to Israel with very little compensation to the Palestinians.

With the changes in Egypt and the debacle of Israel's last adventure in the North I think the Arabs feel the pendulum swinging their way.

Not even a serious starting offer.

[Jane]

WRC: Why do you want the Vatican and Mecca and Lhasa internationalized?

[Cal]

I'll just leave gedell with this quote.

'Greed is a fat demon with a small mouth and whatever you feed it is never enough.'

- Janwillem van de Wetering

[toto]

This post would be easier to follow with a map.

[jdledell]

blowback - What I have outlined is a peace of the possible. Regardless of who is to blame for the present condition, it is impossible to go back to square one. What I have proposed would involve the relocation of about 118,000 settlers, including 31 of my 37 relatives. It gives back 95.3% of the West Bank with additional land for Gaza to be able to grow.

The entire premise of this proposal is it would allow the new Palestine a REAL state, not the trucated non-viable one that Netanyahu has in mind. It will have direct access to the sea via Gaza and a genuine border with Jordan.

William Cummings - Internationalizing the entire area would be a bureaucratic nightmare that neither party wants or could live with. However, internationalizing the old city might be a better solution than the joint adminsistration I have outlined.

I've asked Pat to change my name on the article to the one I use on the web - jdledell.

[Patrick Lang]

jdledell

My apologies. it was late at night. My wife has left me to deal with the three dogs while she is gone to a college reunion. My arthritis is bothering me, etc. BTW, I find your analysis to be very worthwhile and would like to see some of the commenters talk about the parts of the design in detail pl

[Ael]

The two state solution is dead. Arik Sharon killed it.

The only fail solution remaining is to enfranchise everyone between river and sea.

One person, one vote.

Then they can work out whatever details remain on the floor of the Knesset in a democratic fashion.

[The Twisted Genius]

All,

If you plug some of the place names into Google Maps, you'll get a visual idea of the borders proposed by jdledell. I would not be so quick to dismiss this proposal. Remember, jdledell proposed this as a position to be taken by the Israeli government. This would be a stunning statement if Bibi ever pronounced it.

jdledell,

I applaud your constructive post. The shock of seeing the phrase "ceded to Israel" so many times is probably lessened once the area is mapped out. You suggested ceding control of an aquifer to Palestine. How important is this aquifer to the area? I gather you see water security as an important part of the viability of Israel or Palestine. I am intrigued by your proposal for a greater Gaza with a rail connection to the West Bank. How much, if any, of Be'er Sheva are you considering giving to Palestine? How does the Negev land compare to West Bank land in human usability or habitability? Your proposed security arrangements are indeed bold. Would Israel be ready for a Hizballah-like defense for Palestine?

[Kieran]

If Israel does not offer the Palestinians a desirable two state solution (at a minimum, 1967 borders, and it would take some persuading) and end the occupation the next logical move will be for the Palestinians to abandon their struggle for a second state and to demand their full civic rights under the existing state which occupies the entire territory. They would be a fairly substantial voting bloc. In other words, a single state: the end of apartheid.

[Patrick Lang]

kieran

IMO a confederation of Israel, Palestine abd Jordan is the best idea. pl

[LeaNder]

It would help to have a map. From reading I have the impression that almost all settlements will go to Israel, with a piece of the Negev given to the Palestinians in exchange, since:

"The Jews of Israel are never going to populate the Negev so turning it over to the Palestinians is no big loss."

I am very ill-tempered today, thus cynicism alert:
And yes, they get a power plant, desalination plants, and one aquifer under a settlement that goes to Israel, and a train connection between WB and Gaza - using the gracefully donated Negev piece of land as part of the route? That can't really be a direct connection. But these orientals do have so much time to waste, and Israel has security needs. There you go.

And if they don't take this, they won't get anything, which is fair solution.

[Charles I]

gledell, please, which Charles are you responding to, what comment, and what is your other citizenship.

This serious proposal is not for a state. I applaud the detail and the earnest attempt at practical consideration of the future. You have omitted the Palestinians and their souls from the maps. It is a plan for a sovereign "Jewish" state, and a place to live for the captives, overrun with Nato and the IAEA, presumably reporting Palestinian violations of its own "statehood" and attorning to Israel.

What Palestinian, besides the negotiators in the wikileaks, would find that limited sovereignty, that subordinated existence while the aggressor enjoys full nuclear armed sovereignty and commands religious distinction for itself, just or acceptable, even if, in all the circumstances, it was the best of all bad options?

The imperative demand for formal recognition for a Jewish State, plying international relations the language of Judea and Samaria whilst strangling the Palestinian "state" with civil legal restrictions is just so antithetical to human notions of emotional reality, no matter how realistic, that almost any other course - even another few decades of occupation until demographics and global trends overwhelm Israel would appeal.

You cannot demand a supranormal Jewish state and offer an enlarged, yet stunted prison yard patrolled by different warders in exchange and imagine a felicitous response. Even acceptance of such a plan could never be the end of it given the mutual suffering and legalistic disparities.

For all the facts on the ground, for all its power and security needs, Israel's only answer must be freedom and equality, or the demanding Jewish state will remain an subordinating antagonist provoking the universal urge to free and independent association.

[Charles I]

oops I see, reading backwards

[LeaNder]

"IMO a confederation of Israel, Palestine abd Jordan is the best idea. pl"

Absolutely. But it is ultimately a future scenario. Up to a Mediterranean Union, maybe.

What about leaving all settlements in the future Palestinian state? I would assume the fanatics would prefer to move. Settlers can decide to become Palestinian citizen or move to Israel. And--I know that's not a very military/defense perspective--start a huge reconciliation project? With a Palestinian constitution that does not allow segregation. Easy access to education both ways.

Israel already started to make Arab a compulsory language. Wasn't there something like that? yes:
http://www.haaretz.com/news/national/arabic-studies-to-become-compulsory-in-israeli-schools-1.309941

I miss the html tags.

[William R. Cumming]

Jane! They already are internationalized! My advocacy is for their access to all instead of internationalized as now as a possible source of apocalyptic retribution. Pretending that these places are the not the subject of current international policies is exactly the problem.

If humanity wants the world's religions (9fine by me) it must either enforce tolerance or continue to allow savage intolerance. In essence a new Peace of Westphalia must outlaw religious wars or the time for humanities occupation of the earth will end sooner than expect IMO! This does not mean suppression of religions except perhaps for various economic religions but suppression of intolerance. A dream but if not the alternative is a nightmare.

[jdledell]

I want to thank all who have made thoughtful comments. I will attempt to respond.
1. Is this totally fair to the Palestinians - no. But it represents the maximum that I think Israel will agree to. I am looking for a solution and so I am trying to be practical. It is possible that if the arabs wait long enough they and the rest of the world might force Israel to give up more land - in particular Ariel and Ma'ale Adumim. The question is whether waiting for that additional 2% of the land is worth it. I think a quicker resolution will be worth it to the Palestinians.

2 - The issue of water ressources has been raised and this is critical. Right now Israel controls the West Bank aquifers and the inequities between Jews and Palestinians in its distribution is enormous. I would propose Palestine would control all water resources in their West Bank territory, including the one under Ariel. Water resource distribution for the entire land between the river and the sea should be jointly administered since Israel is draining the coastal aquifer fast, leaving little for Gaza.

3 - The land I have proposed ceding to Palestine is not as good as the land Israel is keeping. It borders the Negev. It is habitable but not suitable for farming until the desalinization plants are up and running. The desalinization plants are critical to my proposal since it will allow Gaza to thrive and farm when the coastal aquifer runs dry. I am not proposing any part of Be'er Sheva going to the Palestinians except for the rail line which will run close by.

4. From a defense standpoint this makes the West Bank and Gaza the equivalent of South Lebanon. There is no way to prevent that if Palestine is to be a real state. With Egypt opening Rafah, Gaza is almost already there. The Israelis know this and are not happy but Hezballah type defenses are not an existential threat to Israel. They will cause Israel much pain if war ever breaks out again but Israel would still prevail militarily.

I know Israelis and in my visits I have had met with many, many Palestinians including Hamas members. I am a regular visitor to Sari Nusseibeh's forums that he runs at Al Quds University. I have talked with Saeb Erekat at these forums and think I have an idea what the Palestinians will accept. While my Hebrew is excellent, I have only passable conversational arabic ability. Nonetheless, with follow ups in English I don't think I am misunderstanding Palestinian intentions. This damn conflict has gone on FAR too long. People can hold out for the ideal 100% solution but who wants to wait another 100 years.

[LeaNder]

"2 – Ariel on a more or less straight line to the west would be ceded to Israel and would include the villages of Kiryat Revava, Netafim, Barkan, Elkana, Shaare Tikva and Etz Efrayim. However, this is conditional on Israel ceding the aquifer under Ariel to Palestinian control."

Facts on the ground:
location:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Salfit

Israel planning to steal more land from Palestinians
http://mondoweiss.net/2011/05/israel-planning-to-steal-more-land-from-palestinians.html

[Sallahuddin satti]

I feel Israel appears so sure footed not because of its inherent strength but the US support.The arrogance of accept the offer on our terms and conditions or take a walk is neither civilised nor principled.To live in perpetual fear and hostility and under the illusion of invincibilty is not correct.All human beings have to be respected[that equally includes Israelis] as per certain universal principles and Israel cannot be given a special and priviliged right by the international community to treat Palestinians as children of a lesser God.The area and the people in this area deserve to live in peace with dignity and both sides have to be sincere and just for this wish to materialise one day.The sooner the better.