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26 May 2011


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Personally I trust you on this.

But if you allow me one aside: someone present counted 29 standing ovations, and since she was escorted out at one point. Your 36 aren't that far off:


I also would like to share another contribution by Annie, because it's a mood elevator:


If Egypt keeps the border open with Gaza, the world will be a better place.

Recall that Israeli paratroopers attacked a ship carrying humanitarian aid to Gaza.

Frankly, as long as Mubarak doesn't close the border again, I don't care what he does or what they do with him.

The thing the new government should really be doing is asking who was his handler in the United States. Who told him what to do?

He was paid a lot of money. Somebody gave him orders.


Are you saying Suleiman was not the U.S.'s go to torturer that he's been made out to be? If so how did it happen that so many people accuse him of it?

Patrick Lang


Paid Mubarak? Don't be silly. There was a lot of money to be made in Egypt itself. Mubarak's money came from rake-offs from many business deals. One of thre biggest was the gas deal with Israel and the pipeline that went with it.Mubarak did not have a "handler." He desired a good relationship with the US, that was all. the rest was diplomacy. nobody treated him like an employee, which he was not. Neither was Suleiman. They were allies, pl

Patrick Lang


People are silly generally and dominated by the ignorant and hysterical media and academics. "I will give you his arm." Are you as incapable of recognizing a joke as the rest of these fools? pl


One source for the torture allegations against Suleiman seems to be an Australian detainee named Mamdouh Habib. I found it slightly incredible that a 65 year old man, 10 year head of the intelligence service, was still in the business of personally brutalizing suspects. Though I did like the detail of a Suleiman ordering a guard to kill man with a 'vicious karate kick'. That's not actually impossible as far as I know.




I hope not. I haven't seen anyone else refute these stories.


I didn't think Mubarak had higher standards than the United States Congress who readily go to the highest bidder.


"Are you saying Suleiman was not the U.S.'s go to torturer that he's been made out to be? If so how did it happen that so many people accuse him of it?"

"People are silly generally and dominated by the ignorant and hysterical media and academics."

Yeah, maybe this resulted from hysterical media, and probably it was not OS in person, but there is the quote from Bob Baer,
"In 2004, he told a reporter of the British political weekly New Statesman, regarding the way the CIA deals with terrorism suspects, "If you want them to be tortured, you send them to Syria. If you want someone to disappear—never to see them again—you send them to Egypt."

Baer never refuted the quote as far as I know. Maher Arar could attest to the part about Syria.

Patrick Lang


I am sorry to see you quote Baer on anything. Baer is a former junior employee of the DO who has a good literary agent. Did the Egyptians kill people in pursuit of the "game of nations?" Certainly, with tthe possible exception of Costa Rica, all countries do. That will not change. The "revolution" in egypt is going to be a sad joke in a few years. the Egyptian economy is a disaster and will remain so. Too many people who like to copulate and have lots of children, little in the way of natural resources, no natural exterior markets (except tp sell Israel gas). Egypt is doomed to continue living i a state of self pity and poverty except for the rich few. They will always be there. Only the names will change. pl


I only quoted Baer because the quote is in the public domain. Do you mean to say that he did not know because he was "junior?"

I always remember when we were those "damned junior guys," but we still knew some things.

I fully agree with your observations on Misr. There is no good news on the horizon.

Patrick Lang


You are being defensive. When I first met you, you were an SES. You were once a "junior guy?" You never told me that. Baer gives the impression that he was oncea mighty power in the IC. He was not. Nor was Scheuer. Misr is a mess. The kids who went to AUC on daddy's money and were marxified by radical professors are running wild all over the media. Foundation money begs to be given to their "studies." "Knights in white satin..." What a joke they are.. The islamists wait in the wings to see if they will ultimately have to fight the generals for power or if the genrals will surrender to the islamists in their own ranks and slink away to .... pl

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