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21 May 2011


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R Whitman

What will happen after the veto??

Will the Palestinians take to the streets and possibly bring the Israeli Arabs with them?

Will Abbas, Fatah and Hamas survive?

Will the Palestinians conclude that the two-state solution is a dead end and pursue a one-state solution?

I cannot see the Palestinians meekly accepting a veto.



Because Bibi through his henchmen has our D.C. by its gonads (and he knows it), it is still refreshing to watch Bibi crapping his pants in public (at least once in a while) as a result of Obama empty call for returning to 1967 borders.
Too bad that the Germans (sadly just like U.S.) won't stand up for themselves against Bibi and his crowd's continued abuse of them. Is it going to require the use of deadly force against the Israelis at some future point to get our U.S. government back to policy 'for' U.S. interests and not an abusive foreign entity? I sadly fear that deadly force will be the only way out of the Israeli box.


I think both Israel and Hamas need to work to co-exist, but we also need to tell the Israelis that if they do not show positive movement that they cannot expect the unconditional support from the US that they have experienced in the past. We must not continue to be their "satellite".

Roy G

I'm not so sure Germany is so pliable, given Merkel's widely known rebuke to Bibi. The Nazi card is starting to wear out, both from age and from use.

Even as WWII recedes further, and the last nonagenarian prison guard is ferreted out, the Arab Spring is much closer to the younger generations and their worldview. As Pat Buchanon said about the Palestinians marching to the Israeli borders on the Nakhba to view their old homes and lands:

"Though the White House backed Israel, across Europe what Israel did to these protesters seemed exactly what the king of Bahrain and the president of Yemen had done to theirs."


I'd like to label Netanyahu as a "Legacy" leader of "Old" Israel and ram that image down the throat of the American media.

Arab Spring has changed Western perceptions of the motivations and values of Middle Eastern populations. Israel unfortunately has yet to "get with the program". If the Palestinians maintain a program of non violent resistance, and Egypt, Tunisia, etc. succeed in democratic reform, then the stance of the Israeli Government is going to look increasingly at odds not only with Western values, but the those of a newer Middle East.

We can then start talking about "The Israel problem", bury the Two State solution and start talking about the sanctions and other actions required to advance a democratic one State solution.

OK, call me Pollyanna, but this idea leaves the way open to a happy ending.....change we can believe in.


And it appears that Republicans are the staunchest supporters of Netanyahu opposing Obama - apparently from the same ranks as those who took us blindly into Iraq based on non-existant WMD, likely also connected to misguided support of Israel at considerable expense to the US.
Wake up!!!

Patrick Lang


Pls stop putting "bold" characters in your comments. it pollutes the whole thread/ pl


Just append "" and it stops


The other day Pat Buchanan wrote a column that indicated it was the General Assembly which would recognize the Palestinians and since it was the General Assembly the US does not have a veto. Does anyone know if this is correct?

Patrick Lang


As I understand it the Security Council also has to act. pl


It's not just the bold mark-up, it's sloppy use of mark-up in general. It is easily avoided with a preview of the post. Typepad has this function. Why not use it? If it looks weird in preview, there is need for editing.

Simple rule: Close what you open. So easy. If that's asking too much, well, people don't need to use mark-up.


This''' should fix the problem (hopefully).


and if that didn't work then this should.

Not sure how this is set up. The easy answer may be to turn off html col. People won't be able to bold, underline, or italicize then, but doesn't seem a huge loss.


Hannibal ante portas!

Patrick Lang


I turned it off. pl

William R. Cumming

Interesting post with which I largely agree. Borders changed by violence are not yet the outcome determinative fact of the 21st Century as they were in the 20th Century but this approach can only lead to more violence.

Blessed be the peacemakers.


I's still trying to figure out the US benefits by throwing the only western democracy in the ME under the bus in favor of millions of Arab islamist nutjobs who want come out of the 6th century and kill us.


PL wrote:


As I understand it the Security Council also has to act.'

Thanks. What's the liklihood that if the authoritarians are increasingly ousted in the Middle East that their oil will be priced in something other than dollars if the US continues to side with Israel against the wishes of the rest of the region and the world? Given our trade deficits to go with our internal government budget deficits if we couldn't print the money to pay for our imports we'd be ....... screwed.

I really don't think Americans realize what kind of advantage this gives us and what the consequences would be were it to be lost. Is unqualified support for Isreal worth that loss?

Patrick Lang


The problem with your position is that Israel is an ethno-religious exclusionist state that rules an occupied people with violence and police state methods. They do not have the warm feelings towards America that you evidently have for them. For them we are useful so long as we can be "moved" as Bibi put it and do not resist their desires. The rest of them in the region? Except for the Jordanians i have never been very fond of them either. i just work on this subject. pl



It's time for our U.S. to start 'resisting' Israel's desires, and put our U.S. interests first. What we the U.S. are founded on (Constitution, Bill of Rights), and what Israel is founded on (violent ethno-Police State) are diametric opposites.

Once we have been able to rid ourselves of the Israel parasite and get on with U.S. business, we all (U.S. interests and the Mideast as a whole) can get on with our lives.

Israel as it currently exists is a pariah and exceedingly presumptuous before Heaven. Time to dismantle it and let the Divine hand determine its course.

Eric Dönges

Roy G,

I wouldn't be surprised if Frau Merkel decides she has enough political problems right now as is without drawing the ire of the pro Israel crowd, and so decides to do what previous German administrations have done in such a situation - engage in public hand wringing, abstain from voting on the issue, and then offer money to both sides in an attempt to buy out of any responsibility.


"Just append "" and it stops"

thanks, Walrus, is this so? Would it work also if you start the next comment with it? I vaguely remember you can't simply add a close-*-tag in the next comment. It won't stop it.

What I wondered about, was, he apparently sometimes only added a open-bold-tag in the end of his comment, with the result that only the "Posted by" line was bold and of course all the following comments. That really doesn't feel like an accident. I've once produced a series of comments in italics by forgetting to close the tag. But this actually can't happen here, if you use the preview button.

So we can't use html tags any more? Was that the idea?

William R. Cumming

Many currents from the past are now running through a united Germany facing its third decade as a unified nation. Personally I believe the GERMANS and all Europeans understand how successful the holocaust was in fact. This is never emphasized although books have been written arguing that the post WWII period in Europe was largely successful because of the pograms, and ethnic cleansing conducted by various governments in the 19th and early 20th Century. The GERMANS second cut at a revancist foreign policy post WWI which failed and now WWII which has succeeded can only be premised on forgetfulness of other Europeans of the fact that GERMANY largely dominates in all ways Western Europe. In fact I argue that the real contest of the 21st Century is a GERMAN led EU vis a vis China. Japan now knocked out of any leadership role in ASIA by current events and will probably never regain its USA led revival post WWII for many reasons, including demographic.

So it comes down Great Power wise to
China, an EU led by Germany, Africa unknown status at end of 21st Century and possibly but not probably a USA led North American which has succumbed to being a resource/commodity provided to the others. And of course Brazil in S. American dominate position assuming it does not self destruct over Soccer World Cup and other revealing mass events.
So the real interest of the GERMANS is making sure that no nation-state like Israel can remind the rest of the world of GERMAN history including the holocaust. So Israel for at least two decades more will find Germany its leading supporter outside of the USA because except for the ARABs the rest of the world could not care less whether Israel exists. And deep down all the ARAB states hoping Israel gone this century.

William R. Cumming

Perhaps I should have mentioned that Russia and India will not be great powers by the end of the century. The only cohesion in India is the English language. The only cohesion in Russia is memories of the past as Great Power. Neither nation-state has created sinews that will allow it to withstand the political and economic shocks of this century. Even China faces fragmentation as its biggest concern. 59 dialects in China.


"The other day Pat Buchanan wrote a column that indicated it was the General Assembly which would recognize the Palestinians and since it was the General Assembly the US does not have a veto. Does anyone know if this is correct?
Posted by: GulfCoastPirate"

I think that is about UN Resolution 377A 1950.

'Under the resolution 377A(V), “Uniting for peace”, adopted by the General
Assembly on 3 November 1950, an “emergency special session” can be convened
within 24 hours:

“Resolves that if the Security Council, because of lack of unanimity of the
permanent members, fails to exercise its primary responsibility for the
maintenance of international peace and security in any case where there appears to be a threat to the peace, breach of the peace, or act of aggression, the General Assembly shall consider the matter immediately with
a view to making appropriate recommendations to Members for collective
measures, including in the case of a breach of the peace or act of aggression the use of armed force when necessary, to maintain or restore
international peace and security.
If not in session at the time, the General Assembly may meet in emergency
special session within twenty-four hours of the request therefor.
Such emergency special session shall be called if requested by the Security
Council on the vote of any seven members, or by a majority of the Members of
the United Nations”.

There is some more language somewhere about when the SC fails to do it's duty basically but I don't have it saved.
It may be that Palestine is thinking a two step deal..the GA recognizing Palestine at least to begin with...and then perhaps later requesting the SC to act on any Israeli aggression as a threat to peace. And then if the SC fails again invoke 377 again. The 7 members "and /or majority of the General Assembly" is an important clause.
Don't know I'm not a UN expert and may be reading this wrong, but seems like a route to try.

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