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29 April 2011

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Fiorangela

Walter - based on all of 21 days traveling in Iran (ie. read at your own risk)--

Islam is not indigenous to Iran, it was imposed on a Persian culture that held Zoroastrian religious views. Many Iranian celebrations and customs are Zoroastrian, which the Islamic government attempts to stamp out. Iranians are fiercely proud people, proud of their Iranian culture and genius, which they claim low-caste Arabs appropriated and called it Islamic/Arab. That's one set of tensions. I don't think it rises to the level of militarized violence; that tension is more like the ongoing rivalry between British and Italians, for example.

Within Islam, that is, between Iranian Islam and Saudi Islam, there are some tensions over access to holy sites. Pilgrimage is an extremely important element of culture and religion --and revenue-- in both Iran and Saudi Arabia. Mashad, Iran's holiest city, is nearly always crowded with Islamic tourists from all over the world (except US).
Americans who learn about Islam from zionists come to conflate Wahhabism -- which is strictly Saudi, and violent -- with all of Islam, and to exaggerate the religious conflicts between Sunni and Shia.

The tensions between Sunni and Shia are akin to western Catholic-Protestant divides, and like Catholic-Protestant, have become submerged through intermarriage, etc.

The sense of conflict was pressed on Sunni-Shia with the intent to divide, just as the conflict between Catholic and Protestant in Germany was exaggerated in pre-World War years, in an attempt to divide and weaken the populace.

LeaNder

I hold the extremely unpopular opinion that Ahmadinejad understood the psychotic processes that Abarbanel observed

you are seriously mistaken, about Ahmadinejad, Fiorangela. He is just as nuts, maybe slightly more, than the other side of the game for power. That's nothing I would call courageous, more a recipe for disaster.

William R. Cumming

Fiorangela! How much impact did the ASSASSINS have on spreading Islam in Persia?

How long did the MONGOLS rule Baghdad and how long did they rule Persia?

Cal

jdledell is correct--it will take some shocking and painful blow to Israel to turn them around.
Can they even be turned around?...I have doubts.

Fiorangela

LeaNder, on what do you base your assertion that I am seriously mistaken?

Just ASSERTING I am mistaken is not persuasive; as they sing in My Fair Lady, "Show me." I'm educable, but not gullible.

William Cummings, I don't know the answers to those questions; I was in Iran in 2008, not 700 AD.

Cal, Norman Finkelstein has made the forceful argument that Israel needs to be "destroyed" in order to "bring it to its senses" just as Germany was destroyed-- Finkelstein completed the thought by saying that "Germany is today the most morally conscious state in Europe."

heh
But Jeff Gates reports that Haim Saban, who funded H Clinton's campaign, and bought Brookings & Univision in order to influence US politics, also bought major German media in order to get Merkl elected.

Fiorangela

wish I could edit the reply to W Cummings. I didn't mean to be sarcastic. Apologies to WC

The beaver

Colonel

Have you seen this:
http://spme.net/cgi-bin/articles.cgi?ID=7965

The Israeli government is so concerned that America's adversaries may miscalculate U.S. intentions that it is privately urging Washington to make it clear that the U.S. would intervene in Saudi Arabia should the survival of that government be threatened. That is, after all, what President George H.W. Bush did more than 20 years ago when Saddam Hussein ordered Iraqi forces into Kuwait and moved forces in the direction of Saudi Arabia. "This," President Bush said on more than one occasion, "will not stand." And it didn't.

Fiorangela

LeaNder, I try to limit my assessment of Ahmadinejad to those things he has said in INTERNATIONAL arena. If his statements, ie at UN; from Iran but addressed to US and West; and at interviews in NYC that my close friends have participated in, are analysed side-by-side with statements by Benj. Netanyahu, and if Ahmadinejad's ACTS relating to persons from other nations are laid side-by-side with those of Netanyahu, then hands down, Netanyahu is a psychopath, and Ahmadinejad is comparatively rational.

I don't involve myself in Iran's internal affairs (although, given the parlous, brainwashed state of Israeli society vs the feuding-but-functioning state of Iranian society, I'd say Ahmad. is doing better than Bibi on the domestic front as well).

But back to the point I wanted to make, about keeping out of Iran's internal affairs:
-the UN does not grant outside states the right to interfere in member states' internal affairs; -the Iranian people are plenty smart and courageous enough to handle their own domestic concerns;
-Americans would resent it to high heaven if another nation presumed to interfere in US domestic affairs; and
-Iran's government and relations with its citizens are robust, rough and tumble, and far more 'democratic' than anything one sees happening in ANY OTHER of its neighboring states, as Stephen Kinzer has argued and documented in "Reset: Iran, Turkey, and America's Future."

I also think it's a tactical mistake for groups like NIAC to concede that Iran needs a human rights monitor:
1. no state is without sin--ie., US & Israel imprison orders of magnitude more persons than does Iran;
2. outside pressure such as US/Israel are applying to Iran demand that a state become more repressive -- Toynbee made the argument in "The World and the West," relative to Russia, in 1952. If US TRULY wished to see Iran relax its control over Iranian citizens, it would stop interfering in Iran, which is what numerous Iranian reform activists as well as Barbara Slavin and Suzanne Maloney have been urging the US to do.

3. Finally, putting Iran under "human rights" scrutiny puts Iran is the SAME situation as Iraq was cornered in the decade-long softening of Iraq for invasion. When US Congress was discussing possible war on Iraq in Sept 2002, the Bush White House prepared a briefing doc. given to each congressman, titled, "Decade of Defiance and Denial." It was a document that detailed exactly how US had gone about rigging the deck so that Iraq was bound to lose -- a disgraceful exercise, in my view. If US was genuinely concerned with Iraqi human rights, why did they provide the weaponry for Iraq to commit the atrocities of which Iraq was accused?

Matthew

The Beaver: the problem with the guarantee to the Saudi Royal Family is we would be guaranteeing a regime survival against its own people.

Obama would become Kruschev circa 1956. Yuk.

LeaNder

But Jeff Gates reports that Haim Saban, who funded H Clinton's campaign, and bought Brookings & Univision in order to influence US politics, also bought major German media in order to get Merkl elected.

Who is Jeff Gates?

Haim Saban did in fact buy a German media group with series of leverage capital partners, an insolvency bargain, tripling their money in about three years. Not bad.

Are you suggesting they only had Merkel's election campaign in mind? If so, at least the most important of "his-channels-at-the-time" did no good job in the 2005 election: SAT1 bought in 2003 and sold in 2006.) Since SAT 1 gave Schroeder a slight advantage in attention and pre-election time, compared to all other channels analysed in the study below.

Let me translate a passage from this analysis for you.

In TV news Schröder is judged positively more often than Merkel. This is the case on both public and private channels, with Schroeder treated neutrally on the public channels ARD and ZDF and Merkel judged more negatively, on the private channels RTL and Sat.1 Merkel is treated neutrally and Schroeder more favorably.

If you had silly and arrogant behavior of Schroeder in his TV encounters with Merkel, you would probably suggest that Saban must have bought him to make Merkel win.

Don't you think it was much more interesting for him and his partners to triple their money in only three years? Besides a media colossus like the Kirch Media group isn't on offer and in insolvency just for the next election. The whole story is ridiculous.

But there is a real scandal at the moment that Schroeder in fact invested public time and state money in Niedersachsen in his own election as chancellor.

Highlander

If Jewish bankers had not declared economic war on Germany in 1933,

Fiorangela,

I'm a bit of a history buff, especially economic history. Can you give names, dates, actions to back up this statement? Seriously, I don't believe or disbelive you at this point.

Jackie

Fiorangela,
I saw Norman Finklestein this past week at UMKC here in Kansas City. I think he would be more useful if he got to his point faster and ditched some of the thearics,

prasad


Both sides (Israel and Palestinian) countries should have peace talks then this issue will be solved otherwise this issue will continue for a long time and neighbouring countries will suffer along with these countries and also this conflict will be one of the reason for world war so we have to solve this problem immediately United Nations should negotiate with these countries.

arbogast

JERUSALEM — Israel said on Sunday that it was delaying the transfer of almost $90 million in tax revenue owed to the Palestinian Authority in a move against the emerging reconciliation between Fatah, the party that dominates the authority, and its Islamic rival, Hamas.

Financial blackmail. Sound familiar?

In the [notional] words of John McCain, we are all Palestinians now.

Of course, if you believe that the extraordinary differences between the treatment of the savings and loan crisis and the current financial crisis are on account of the intervention of the tooth fairy, then we're aren't all Palestinians now.

On the other hand, if you believe that Israel is too big to fail, then you can forget about the tooth fairy.

Phil Cattar

Jdledell,Thanks for your report from on the ground about what is going on in Israel.My sister just returned from visiting there.I have never been there but have studied the the area for 50 years.From what I have learned your analysis seems very accurate,unfortunately.

Graphics Design

What's even more amazing is how quickly the rockets attacks stopped...and how after 4 high profile murders by Palestinians, this Unity Deal suddenly emerges just days later. It is so obvious the game these 'tards are playing...and so hilarious to read that Hezbollah is thinking of high-tailing it to Qatar.

Fiorangela

response to Highlander, 9:20-

Here's the London Daily Express newspaper with the banner headline - http://www.scribd.com/doc/33501955/Daily-Express-Judea-Declares-War-on-Germany-Boycott-of-German-Goods-en-1933-1-p-Scan

Here's some background on Samuel Untermyer, an ardent zionist and major protagonist involved in creating the Federal Reserve system, the SEC, income tax, getting Woodrow Wilson to involve US in WWI, instrumental in creating American 'Christian zionism;' behind the Hollywood propaganda campaign that convinced Americans to wage war on Germany in WWII --
http://muse.jhu.edu/login?uri=/journals/american_jewish_history/v093/93.1hawkins.pdf

(the Muse article is only partially accessible unless one has a subscription. My librarian was able to access the entire article for me, online.)

Discussion of Jewish people as causal factors in the world wars will not be found in whole cloth in most books, with the exception of those authored by David Irving, who is a pariah is many quarters. Among the other books I've studied to put together puzzle pieces are:

Niall Ferguson's 2-vol. biography of the Rothschilds;

2-vol biography of Vladimir Jabotinsky;

"The Speculation Economy," by Lawrence E Mitchell;

several volumes from my collection of antiquarian books -- English trans. of German magazines from late 19th century;

Graetz's History of the Jewish People;

David Ruderman's lectures on Intellectual History of the Jewish People;

Liulevicius's lectures on "Utopia and Terror," the causes of the "bloody" 20th century;

Robert Weiner, "The Long 19th Century."

The last four were most notable for the information omitted: Graetz omits Kaballah; Weiner & Liulevicius omit zionism from that era; Ruderman omits, or more properly, mischaracterizes, how Jews participated in Silk Road merchant and banking developments and later, in Italian banking industry


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