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07 March 2011


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Mark Logan

On that site Mr. Mertz says...

"Such an intervention would also create a long term commitment for the United States."

I would ask him "Why?"

Those rebels need some bullets, beans, and a bit of cash to bribe the right tribes, for the most part. Perhaps the shooting down of a few choppers, or efficient means to do so themselves. Is this a proposal of marriage in that culture or something? I doubt they are that "into" us anyway.

Patrick Lang

Mark Logan

IMO you are right. Rather than marriage I have in mind what the British call a "dirty weekend." pl


Sydney J. Freedberg Jr.,

"In brief: I think supporting the Libyan rebels is in our national interest, and our assistance to the Croatians during the Yugoslav civil war shows us how to do this with minimum exposure, moderate investment, and maximum effect."

Eh? Mr. Freedberg, who are the rebels? Some of the so-called freedom fighters during the Yugoslav war are now very much biting the hand that helped them.

James Jay Carafano,

"The real irony here is the assets that are really needed stealth aircraft, amphibious ships, carriers, and marine expeditionary forces are exactly the ones that people want to cut. Its nuts to hear Secretary Gates chide those that complained about shutting down the F-22 line and then turn around and say Libya would be hard because we don’t have a lot of stealth aircraft."

I want a Carafano bobble top! What in the "Western Task Force" is he talking about? All out invasion? I think we have had enough of that. This is not a heavy army job. This is a Greenie job, so lets get the 4-Star Brass out of our ass and stop the Puzzle Palace Shuffle!

Charles I

Now that's a discussion.

A couple of A 10's up and down the highway. . . CBC news is reporting the AWACS in the air. Obama's finally mumbling about "Nato . . . all . . options. . including military force."

How over-planned will this be, that's what'll snafu it all to hell, they ever get it signed off, maybe by April Fools.

Shoot at MQ. Shoot up his planes and tanks. Go home. Send a couple of C5A's full of meds, parts for the water and power plants, maybe some chocolates and pantyhose, that's it.

Its not D Day, rocket science.



The Heritage Foundation should have a Carafano bobble head made if he can pull off getting 'Stealth' aircraft funded. He'll be bringing in more profits to their donor corporations than Michael Jordan did for Nike.

Then again Dr. Carafano doesn't read the Foundation's own writings, does he. (I have a feeling of deja vu here).

Here's a reminder quote:
"The United States does not have the resources or the willpower to function as a global policeman with endless involvement in far-flung conflicts, civil wars, and sectarian feuds."

Surprise, surprise, and yes, the right opposed Clinton's efforts in Somalia too.

At least he found a way to save money:

I'm surprised he couldn't wrangle 'Star Wars' into this, or at least a space based laser or two.


Jake: I sure hope you get that Carafano bobble top. You've been wanting it for a long time. I just don't read what he has to say, which is probably a mistake on my part.

Patrick Lang


Carafano has alwys seemed the oddest of the neocons to me. On a TV panel he once told the host with a giggle that he had been a cadet at West Point when I was a professor there. This had some sort of esoteric meaning or him. pl


I'm sorry you had to suffer his presence in person. He looks a little unhinged in his photo, which is why I avoid him.

Do you remember him from West Point?

Patrick Lang


No. He was apparently beyond my reach. Perhaps he was one of those pimply creatures I caught sitting on the floor in a corridor from time to time. Unfortunately it was necessary to explain to these that a possible future officer and gentleperson did not sit on the floor in a public building clutching one's school books. It was difficult to leave them all behind after years of this. pl



I am a bit confused by the arguments on the no-fly zone. Sec. Gates says we would have to take out Libya's air defenses to implement a no-fly zone. Aren't there two ways to implement a no-fly zone? Either shoot the planes down when they are in the air, or make sure they can't take off by knocking out the airfields? Either is an act of war, but knocking out the airfields would seem to be easier. Cruise missiles or drones? It still leaves the helicopters, but some special forces, ours, Italy's, France's or SAS with Manpads could take care of that. I know it is not that easy, and I don't believe in "surgical strikes", but what am I missing? (If surgery was so precise, why are so many surgical mistakes made?)

Patrick Lang


What you are missing is that we don't want them shooting at our airplanes. pl

William R. Cumming

Have I not been clear? The decision has been made to do nothing by the US and the EU and NATO understand this decision. It is up to them. And MQ also understands the decision has been made. Does that mean MQ wins? Maybe! who else is rooting for MQ to win? Apparently most of the developed world.


Here's a beauty...


Clifford Kiracofe

1. Logistics issue:
"Rebel-controlled eastern Libya is at risk of running out of petrol within a week after refineries in the region halted operations, Gulf News reports.

"Dwindling supplies of vehicle fuel in Benghazi and throughout eastern Libya were a rising concern for the rebel movement, the Dubai-based newspaper reported.

"A spokesman for eastern Libya's rebel-controlled interim government, Tarek Bu Zaqiya, told the newspaper the region faced "severe shortages" of fuel soon."

Local refineries shutting down production. Any significant technical issues involved in getting them back up into production once closed down?

Saw a report indicating Qs forces were destroying gas stations in the Tripoli region.

2. AFP reports: "Two members of Libya's rebel leadership, the provisional national council, are to speak before the European Parliament today, AFP reports from Strasbourg.

Mahmoud Jebril, 58, Libya's former planning minister and Ali-Al-Isawi, 45, former ambassador to India, have agreed to travel to Strasbourg to meet the assembly, the head of the liberal group Guy Verhofstadt says."

3. Have seen photos indicating opposition forces have RPGs. Few reports of any tank kills, perhaps a couple taken out?

William R. Cumming

As Professor Kiracofe points out. The insurgency will soon and bloodily collapse in Libya as fuel runs out. Hey logisitics, logistics, logistics. And yes WH the blood in no longer on your doorstep but inside all over the floors and walls or soon will be.
You guys and gals in your WH cocoon just don't get it and clearly your advisors are on some agenda of their own. If you thought MQ was an unguided missile before this insurgency wait for what comes next?


"Any significant technical issues involved in getting them back up into production once closed down?"

Clifford, I suspect that many of the men/women who operated these refineries left the country.

The Twisted Genius

I don't think an effective response would even take a "dirty weekend." If a carrier moved close to Libya's territorial waters, our aircraft could launch on warning when Qathafi's aircraft took off, fly in fast, shoot the bastards down and return to the carrier. Repeat if necessary. I would think the remaining Libyan pilots would soon find mechanical or other reasons for not attempting to take off again. This would establish a "don't bomb the rebels or we'll kill you" zone rather than a no fly zone.

This would give the rebels a little much needed breathing space. Oh, and send the ODAs in, too.



Nice, KISS, keep it simple for the stupid. I think both Qathafi and a bunch of presidential advisors, ours, can understand this one. Think of the money saved by not having to do what Gates outlined when he shooting down the initial idea. (pardon the pun).

William R. Cumming

Apparently a major arms dump was lost to the insurgents by a huge explosion of unknown source.

William R. Cumming

Pretty much uniformity now in insurgents calling for air strikes on MQ! To late unfortunately, as the tide has turned against them. IMO!


"No Fly Zone" reminds me too much of Iraq, but I'm all for the "Don't bomb the rebels or we'll blow you out of the sky Zone".

Didn't we (US) spend a few zillion on "Stealth Fighters"? Do they work? I don't recall them ever being used as "fighters"...

William R. Cumming

Am I wrong? The F-22 has some stealthy characteristics but there is no USA stealth fighter--bombers yes!

Mike C


The F-22 is about as stealthy it gets, and its two primary missions are air dominance and SEAD. They carry up to six AMRAAMs and four AIM-9s in a pure air-to-air configuration. SEAD missions carry two 1000lb JDAMs, or eight small diameter bombs in the belly bays by trading out four of the AMRAAMs. That's what the brochure says, anyway.



They work great, no one has seen the actual cost or the number of understaffed schools or underfed children that are result.


WRC - Sorry, minimal research reveals my ignorance. I was fooled by the "F" designation of the F-117, our first Stealth "Fighter", which really should have been the "A-something" since it was for ground attack, not air-to-air combat.

Turns out they're being mothballed anyway.

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