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27 March 2011

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Patrick Lang

DH

Perhaps you have noticed that history has its victims? Looking for justice? Keep looking. pl

dh

Thanks pl. I get the message. Some civilians deserve protection and some don't.

Fred

DH,

Those are exactly the people I was referring to as needing to find new leadership; which would go a long way towards both ending the combat and mitigating whatever retribution is going to be extracted.

Patrick Lang

dh

You thought this was about protecting civilians? How old are you? pl

Patrick Lang

Fred

"New leadership?" Who do you have in mind? pl

Patrick Lang

Rick

IMO, yes. pl

Jane

Some restraint now in how the Easterners treat the Westerners could have a big pay off in the future prospects for peace in Libya. Or is there some reason in the local culture why this is simply a naive assumption that human nature is the same every where?

As an American I'm not interested in installing Qaddafi 2.0. Nor am I interested in seeing that one bunch of civilians gets slaughtered rather than different bunch.

My impression has been that Quaddafi is a tyrant who has swallowed up much of the financial and political oxygen.

A convincing demolition of his government is necessary but once that is obtained,what are the prospects for the rebels undertaking the hard work of achieving something better?

bth

So with the territorial advances now the rebels have supply line issues, if they have supplies to speak of.

An additional thought, if I were MQ supporter and was losing ground, I'd be wanting to get my families out of the country to avoid retribution with all the issues that entails. Let's see if we see any indication of this now.

Fred

Col,

Perhaps it's only wishful thinking; I have no special connections or insights but it seems to me the Qathafi's time is almost up and that someone else would prefer to remove him in order to save something, if only their skin.

Highlander

Will they still exist in these places? Yes, but they will not rule. pl

Didn't they say the same thing about the the Jewish led Bolsheviks in 1917?

WILL

the libyan youth are tweeting that Sirte has fallen (or perhaps turned). the road would then be clear to relieve Misrata (sp?)!

Tyler

Let's drop some friendly Pashtuns over there to teach the Libyans how to use mortars.

You can cause a lot of heartbreak with a 60mm mortar no matter where and what the enemy is in. Especially if you have the trigger system that will turn it into a giant M203.

eSapper

Any clarity yet, on who re-energized the Rebels?

Stay safe, and thanks for the info.

clifford kiracofe

Rick,

So far I have seen press reports indicating mercenaries from: Niger, Chad, Mauritania, Ghana, Nigeria, Sudan, Mali, Guinea-Bissau.

Q has some reach in sub Saharan Africa. Would some of these governments, or high officials, be complicit? Shouldn't the ICC be investigating the sourcing of mercs per Libya?

The US and UK press seem to be downplaying the African merc angle. French press reports it. French press has carried stories of the Mau Mau style mutilation of Libyans by African mercs.

Opposition fighters reportedly have recovered counterfeit Libyan money from some dead mercs...

clifford kiracofe

Mercs:

"The Libyan regime is also reported to have sought to recruit African fighters, including from among militant groups in Niger, Mali, Somalia, Eritrea, Sudan and Chad that have been supported by Col Gaddafi in the past...

"Menas Associates, a UK risk consultancy that has been covering Libya for 25 years, estimates that up to 5,000 African fighters may have been brought in."
http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/488d4fc6-5898-11e0-9b8a-00144feab49a.html#axzz1HtJZ8LEC

jonst

Ok, fine, I buy this not about "protecting civilians"? So tell me; What IS this about Col?

I know what I think. What is your take? Perhaps you've already expressed it and I've missed it. But if so, could you repeat it for me?

Patrick Lang

jonst

There are two factions in the Obama WH about this.

1- The 150% US internal political crowd led by Donilon and McDonough who care for nothing but whatever the impact of US participation in this campaign will have on the 2012 political campaign. they have done everything they could to prevent or limit US participation.

2- The Clinton, Rice and Powers group who want to see Libya as part of the wave of revolutions sweeping the Arab World. The neocons tend to favor this group even though Israeli policy is unsympathetic to the rebels.

Obama is waffling in the middle as usual. the language in the UNSC resolution is the result of the need to balance these interests as well as to avoid a veto from russia or China.

Contrary to the conceit of many Americans the Europeans are perfectly capable of commanding and managing this rather limited air campaign if they have American support in tenkers, targeting and simlar "infrastructure" functions.

Bottom line, Jonst - it's about regime change and will either succeed or fail based on the willingness of the Euros to keep up the air pressure and the ability of the rebels to organize fuel supplies for their westward advance. pl

Patrick Lang

highlander

That may be but in this case I think the Islamists will not take power. pl

William R. Cumming

PL! Question? On a scale of 1-10 with 10 being insurgents needing direct combat support in the form of ground troops and 1 being no chance of any foreign ground troop assistance where do you plant the meter?

I would give it about a 4 or 5! Just a guess though!

Jake

"Speaking on NBC's "Meet The Press," Lugar insisted that the U.S. has no vital national security interest in Libya and argued that additional military spending will exacerbate the nation's budget deficit."

(http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/03/27/libya-lugar-questions-us-costs_n_841136.html)

Just stupid crap to have gotten involved. Just very sad and we even justify this one with educated bull-sheet-rock.

The US Constitution suffers again. For the sake of another war of choice..

Sad state of affairs...

jonst

Ok, not that you need to be in agreement with me Col, but we are on the same page. The factions are split between the quest for victory in Presidential elections....and the quest for entrance, in this case women, into Wise Men's Club. And get graduate schools and Chairs named after you.

But I still believe that after MQ is gone the real battle will begin. What then? Rhetorical question Col.

In any event...thank you Col for providing that rarest of occurrences these days...a straightforward answer to a straightforward (hopefully) question

The Twisted Genius

Qatar has recognized the provisional government in Benghazi as the sole legitimate authority of Libya. Qatar is also sending an immediate shipment of fuel which will keep the rebel technicals rolling towards Tripoli. Qatari Mirages are flying combat missions over Libya. Between all this official support for the Libyan rebels and Al Jazeera's major role in covering what is being called the Arab Awakening, I would love to hear the Emir of Qatar's vision for the future of the Arab world. I can't think of a more bold, forward thinking and open minded autocrat alive today.

Patrick Lang

WRC

They do not need any US conventional ground forces. What they need is for w--k d----d politicians and long haired blond 24/7 anchors to shut up and let the NATO air forces and the rebels accomplish the collapse of the MQ regime. pl

DanM

TTG they have lots of the recoiless rifles, but i have not seen one fired yet.

dh

I agree Washington politics trumps any humanitarian concerns. I also think Sarkozy's reelection and personal vanity played a big part.

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