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08 February 2011

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John Kirkman

Gee, I wonder why most in that part of the world hate our guts.
And Hillary was nose to nose with the guy responsible for protecting all those nukes?
Anyway,how many aircraft carriers do we have over there, and how big a bang to sink one hit in the sweet spot?

William R. Cumming

General Ali! Sounds like one more Tic Toc on the time clock moving towards an even greater tragedy. Total loss of confidence between the US and Pakistan aggravated by many factors including drone strikes and collateral damages. Do you have any rough estimate without disclosing sources of boots on the ground of US forces in Pakistan? Even a guestimate?

J

Davis's car was a 'rental' not an embassy vehicle.

Under Pakistan law only actual consular functionaries have diplomatic status, not service workers. Ergo no immunity status.

Journos investigating Davis found that the company he was supposedly working for was bogus, and appears to be a store-front.

Which begs the question -- Is this one of Dewey Claridge's boyz perchance?

J

Section II, Article 41 of the treaty, in its first paragraph regarding the “Personal inviolability of consular officers,” states:

“Consular officers shall not be liable to arrest or detention pending trial, except in the case of a grave crime and pursuant to a decision by the competent judicial authority.”

So why is the State Dept. whining that Pakistan is violating the Vienna Convention regarding Davis? Just what was Davis really doing? Which again begs the question -- Is Davis one of Dewey Clarridge's boyz?

Retired (once-Serving)Patriot

Funny how many of these details continue to escape the interest of US mainstream media.

Thanks BG Ali for posting on it.

RP

Lord Curzon

Seems like Davis was pinged by the two men he was following and he responded - the back-up team? FUBAR.

LeaNder

strange Mafia-like story. I wonder what job description his contract has, and if it contains a passage that no matter what he does he will be guarded as a diplomat?

Strange if true: take green card and money or you are dead man walking. Of course not if this was only a trick to get the men to Guantanamo Bay.

Arun

The web has pictures of Davis's car. The front windshield has some 5 holes in it. The rear windshield is completely shattered.

The holes in the front windshield are visible here: http://pakistanpal.livejournal.com/987922.html

The rear of the car is here:
(click on the picture to zoom in)
http://www.thetrueperspective.com/2011/01/american-fundos-who-like-to-play-guns.html

A third view of the car is here http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12298546

One should also remember that cars in Pakistan have right-hand drives.

firing through the windshield needs clarification - which windshield - front or back? or both?

I myself find it hard to construct a narrative in which the damage is as in the pictures without Davis having been shot at.

Arun

Interpreting the holes in the front windscreen:

http://www.freereferral.com/newsletter/spring2010/lateral_angle_determination_bullet_holes_windshields.php

William R. Cumming

Today's NY Times has coverage of the event.

zanzibar

It seems the Pakistani government is in a no win situation, between a rock and a hard place.

If they let Davis go without even a fig leaf of justice their legitimacy is further eroded in the eyes of their people but they have the American government bearing down on them like a ton of bricks.

Not a good situation! If there should be concern of an Egypt like situation it should be Pakistan which has both jihadis and military capability.

Would we ever find out what Davis was really up to and who gave the tasking order?

Jake

The way we are handling things lately, we might as well shoot ourselves in the foot with a... grenade.

Jake

After reading the latest news (sic) reports and if partially true. I have to think this guy has to be a contractor of some sort. Either that or its worse, the cover shop (another contractor) at CIA needs to be hung upside down for stupidity.

charlottemom

RaY davis was contracted by whom or what company? Does to US refuse to answer this question? Did US give out false info -- front or front group. Not clear from the articlem but this seems to be the case. Usgovt withholding evidence in this case. While we're t it. what is his true name?

robt willmann

I was wondering yesterday if Mr. FB Ali was going to write on this "Davis" incident, and the thought was fulfilled.

Here is another article about it by Dave Lindorff, with some additional information. He claims that the U.S. Embassy said that "Raymond A. Davis" was an employee of Hyperion Protective Consultants LLC, which, upon investigation, appears to be the proverbial empty storefront!

http://www.counterpunch.org/lindorff02082011.html

Jane

So. Do spies have the right to use deadly force in self- defense against apparent civilians?

The cyclist is the true tragedy. The rest would seem to have assumed the risk in their activities.

Arun

Prof Christine Fair has an article in the Daily Times and I think it gets to the core issue facing Pakistan right now. All the controversies regarding blasphemy law, civilian vs military rule, etc., etc., in my opinion, are distractions from the main issue.

Quote: "To free Pakistan of international meddling, Pakistan’s political leaders need only to subject themselves and their patronage networks to an agricultural and industrial tax, a move which Pakistan’s leadership has steadfastly avoided throughout the state’s entire history. Of course, it must improve income tax compliance too."

arbogast

It has just occurred to me that what we are seeing in Egypt (I know, I'm already off-topic) is the difference in philosophies between Bush père and Bush fils.

Bush the elder refused to overthrow Saddam Hussein. His reasoning was that he wanted stability in the ME and probably a counter to Iran.

I agreed then, and I agree now.

It is similar with Egypt. Mubarak, God love him, is no Saddam Hussein... I think. But whatever he is, we don't overthrow him.

Now, if you talk to George junior, you overthrow anyone you want to. But George junior caused more harm than good.

After all, he elected Obama.

I can't believe I said any of that, but I believe it.

Fred

Interesting write up in counterpunch, thanks for the link robt.

As to Xe, here's a nice tid-bit from wiki:
"Xe is currently the largest of the U.S. State Department's three private security contractors. ...At least 90% of the company's revenue comes from government contracts."

FB Ali

Here’s my take on the occurrence (guess, really). Davis appears to be an ex-SF soldier working on contract to a US intelligence agency (DIA?). He was probably running local agents out of various US consulates in Pakistan. The two men he killed were probably in that category. He had a meeting with them earlier that went sour (possibly about money). Davis drove off and they chased him on their motorbike. They caught up with him at the stoplight, and made some threatening move; he shot them both. (I can’t imagine why he would photograph his ‘kill’ before taking off!).

Arun: He shot them through the front windshield. The rear one was probably shattered by the angry crowd that collected after the shooting.

WRC: The US has an airbase in Pakistan (out of which the CIA flies drones). There are a couple of hundred or so “trainers” with the Frontier Corps, which operates in the tribal areas. They are mostly SF personnel and accompany the FC on operations as ‘mentors’. It is possible that some of these operations are initiated by them, and they do more than mentoring during them.

jonst

No one would fire through a windshield unless he felt his life, or a ton of money, depended on it. Or for some bizarre reason that was the ONLY way to shoot. No one would do it if they could avoid it. My take anyway.

Not that that changes a whole lot....I'm just saying

walrus

Gen. Ali:

"(I can’t imagine why he would photograph his ‘kill’ before taking off!)."

If this occurred, I wonder if Col. Lang might like to comment?

psc

From the article: "

Meanwhile, tragedy struck again in this sorry saga. The families of the slain men reported that they had been approached to accept a large sum of money (as well as ‘green cards’) to drop charges, but had refused."

Why would we be giving green cards to people who obviously have a beef with the US Govt? Does anyone remember Faisal "Times Square bomber" Shahzad?

William R. Cumming

Thanks General Ali. I believe we (US) started with 200 advisors in the Republic of Viet Nam, not that there is any comparison.

Nancy K

Arbogast, we are not overthrowing Mubarak, the people of Egypt are. There is a big difference between Iraq and Egypt. Are not citizens allowed to overthrow a corrupt president, one that has been a dictator for years, and was planning on his equally corupt son replacing him. Is is not all about us. As for Bush Jr, causing Obama to be elected, I think it was more likely McCain and Palin who caused that.

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