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23 February 2011

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William R. Cumming

Given the interesting attendance list would you argue is the primary in country venue for US policy makers with an interest in Israeli affairs? I ask the question only because of ignorance as to how many similar affairs Israel holds this year and I assume that all US attendees had their way paid by the Israeli government? fese

Clifford Kiracofe

Good question. There are many interactions at many levels year around. Perhaps other SST readers will have some data for us on this point.

Go to the Herzliya Conference website and look at the program. You will see the full array of heavy weights there.

It seems to me this annual conference is particularly significant.

steve

The sheer blatancy and shamelessness of the Lobby's efforts continues to amaze me, particularly in light of the changing events in the Mideast.

One would think that the Lobby would anticipate some possible effects of those changes, particularly on US policy, and perhaps shrewdly engage in more subtle, sophisticated means of subverting US interests to Israel's.

But the Lobby reflects Israel's sensibilities--in your face, no quarter, no compromise, even when it's in Israel's interests in the long term (and I think the "long term" is quickly approaching).

So who could expect differently?

VietnamVet

Clifford,

“Dilemmas In US Policy in the Middle East: Stability vs. Democracy?”

Revolution is contagious. Saudi king gives billion-dollar cash boost to housing, jobs. With 40% of his young men unemployed, it was this, revolution or a war against Shiites. The last two would kill the black golden goose.

The fallacy is to associate stability with democracy. Post World War II, an expanding Middle Class was the cause of Western stability not democracy. As America approaches 40% unemployment for poor young males, the Oligarchs here had better pay heed to the Saudi King. It was a joke this morning at work, but when Civil Servants are prepared to March on the Capitol to protect their rights and jobs, the contagion is catching across the world.

The beaver

In the meantime, according to Richard Silverstein, Dan Shapiro -another AIPAC man- as Ambassador to Tel-Aviv

http://www.richardsilverstein.com/tikun_olam/2011/02/22/dan-shapiro-to-be-obamas-new-israel-ambassador/

charlottemom

Thanks for your report -- A real whos who of zionism. How long has Barbour been in this camp ? Would love to see which other US presidential hopefuls are/have been to this invite-only(?) conference.

Panel topics are quite enlightening; their titles resound with anxiety and uncertainty. Has Israel really been caught so flat-footed on geo-political developments?

“All the Eggs in One Basket? America’s Place in Israel’s Foreign Policy” panel to discuss how to detact tail from dog? Arrogance.

johnf

If I was a journalist covering US Foreign Policy I think I'd live in Tel Aviv rather than Washington.

Fred

It is very unfortunate that Governors Barbour and West seem more concerned with Israel's security than America's. But then again Judith Miller is there, surely to report all the 'facts' to a waiting public.

John Kirkman

". changing events in the Mideast" indeed.

The Pirates of Somalia . . ta da . . .

From the Halls of Montezuma,
To the shores of Tripoli;
We fight our country's battles
In the air, on land, and sea;
First to fight for right and freedom
And to keep our honor clean:
We are proud to claim the title
Of United States Marine.

Apparently Somalia is not a serious consideration at present, and all efforts are to be in consideration of Israel, and, oh, of course, that thing in Afghanistan. Iraq? Hmm, well maybe.

"In the past, 20 or so soldiers used to guard every ship but now the numbers are ranging between 60 and 70 soldiers," said Ali, a pirate in the coastal village of Gara'ad.
"We are more alert than any time before," he said. "In the past, we allowed the foreign navies to approach us but now we have warned them to not get nearer to us."
Well, at least they now warn the US Navy not to get near.
And Turkey drifts out with the tide.

Cato the Censor

Judith Miller (Fmr. New York Times) represented US journalists.

By the same logic, they should have gotten Bernie Madoff out of jail to represent financiers.

Cal

Looking at the list of former US officials and US pro Israel think tankers just reminds once again how deeply imbedded Israelis are in the levers
of influence in America.

Too bad.

William R. Cumming

Does Israel allow both political and economic freedom in your opinion Dr. Kiracofe? If the answer is no to either than why is it referred to as a democracy by many? I am overlooking that religious freedom is a factor in liberty.

Phil Giraldi

I have no problem with Dan Shapiro going to Israel as US Ambassador, though it does tell us a lot about Obama's loyalties. No, what I wonder about is how Shapiro went from outreach to Jews to sitting on the National Security Council with the Middle East portfolio...

Clifford Kiracofe

WRC,
Well some would argue it is more a colony of the Jewish Agency having fascist features.

Cal,
More than deeply embedded, much more.

Cato,
There are those who believe Madoff made huge sums available to the central bank of Israel and etc. It is a money laundering center for international organized crime some analysts contend.

Fred,
Yup.

Johnf,
Better to live in Paris work off the Internet IMO.

beaver,
working on that story

charlottmom,
Don't know much about Barbour but his nephew is running his campaign thus maybe his idea. Seems he was in Israel with the Republican Jewish Coalition organization sponsorship:
http://www.rjchq.org/

William R. Cumming

Evidence of Madoff ties to Israeli Russian interests is quite overwhelming. Some evidence that Russian flight capital heavily invested with MADOFF and one of the reasons he gave up the ghost and surrender in US rather than flee. Flight would have made him vulnerable to retalion from the Russian gansters he duped.

Peter Principle

Curiously, possible Republican presidential candidate Governor Haley Barbour of Mississippi presented concluding remarks . . one can understand the visit to Israel as his first primary.

What's so mindtwisting about watching conservative Republicans (Huckabee, Barbour -- can Palin be far behind?) troop off to Israel is the knowledge that they aren't pandering to Jewish voters back home, but rather to the fundamentalist Christians, who on the subject of Israel and the settlements have become -- if the metaphor can be excused -- more Catholic than the pope.

Truly, it's a bizarre political circus we live in now.

J

Colonel, Phil,

Did you notice some of the speakers at the 'conference' included Israel's 'dark side' (i.e. Uzi Arad, Pinchus Buchris, Tzipi Livni, Efraim Halevy, etc.). I wonder how many 'bugs' were in each of the visiting guests' rooms, along with sweepers in the bar lounge/restaurant areas to catch the goings on of the various intimate/subtle conversations at play. Israel's Mossad and Unit 8200 were having a field day one would imagine, which would have included picking up things they could use later for their future black-mail and leverage positions against their foreign guests.

Good for Israel's dark side/bad for U.S. National Security.

Sam Will

Peter, WRC, Phil, CK and all here:
I am sorry to tell you that it's OUR US Govt. agencies who are most benefiting from the arrangement with the "Lobby" and its "Court Jews"...always has, always will...until something BIG Gives somewhere...but there is no sign of that YET...we are still in a Honeymoon phase as far as I can see...depending how "revolutions" go in MENA and beyond....we might witness some changes to that sweet heart deal....

In the world of CIA, the playbook never seems to change...

AIPAC, JINSA and all other "Court Jewish" PACs and ORGs. are a convenient Cover for CIA, NSA, DIA, NRO, FBI, DEA, and all the other 18 US Intelligence agencies to hide behind...Hence no need to do any significant disclosures to Congress or its Intelligence Committees about any significant covert activities or extra-judicial operations spanning decades. The only exceptions, which won't be repeated anytime soon, were BCCI or Iran-Contra, to name a few ...
AIPAC is a perfect "cover", it gives overwhelming control of Congress to CIA without having to move a finger...and to Hell with the Foreign Policies of Foggy Bottom or any Justice for Palestinians, Lebanese, or Freedom, the rule of law, good governance and Democracy in faraway places...
AIPAC & Co. and all the other 18 US Intelligence agencies are priceless for CIA, and the Middle East can go to Hell as far as they are concerned, and that has been proven to be the case since the 1960s!
AIPAC, Jstreet, Jinsa, WINEP, their coteries etc. and all the NGOs, NED, Freedom House, USAID or the likes, work hand in hand with CIA and their Israeli counterparts everywhere... The world is changing fast. Will that change the equation described here above???


Clifford Kiracofe

Peter Principle,

The formula seems to be use the Christian Zionists as a bloc for your political "base" and votes; use Jewish Republicans for your campaign finance.

I believe about 55% of Huckabee's primary vote in Iowa was from Christian Zionist Republicans.

Not sure what the overall national numbers would be but perhaps by now 30-40% of Republican "base" is Fundamentalist/Christian Zionist.

Recall that Christian Zionists went for Jimmy Carter back in 1978. Once they found he was not pro-Israel to their liking, they bolted for the Republicans and Reagan.

Did you notice how Obama visited Billy Graham when in North Carolina? Not by accident...

Fred

Sam Will,

Nice try. You forgot Banco Ambrosiano, might as well get all the scandals lumped together.

William R. Cumming

Professor Kiracofe and Sam Will! I think I am at the beginning of being able to mount an argument that the events in Arabia are of much greater long term significane than any have foreseen at this point. Would be interested if you think their are some road markers to documenting that conclusion. And of course the IC often misses the big ones, like the collapse of the Soviet Union or the collapse of America as world's only superpower. Stay tuned.
I do understand that the Chinese have their internal security system on the highest level of alert to protect against any "Jasmine Revolution" occurring. Amazing. Wondering when US internal security apparatus will be going on high alert? Fear of a "democracy revolution" which might even hang a few bankers and lobbyists on the mall?

The beaver

@ Phil Giraldi

No, what I wonder about is how Shapiro went from outreach to Jews to sitting on the National Security Council with the Middle East portfolio...
Well one is the protégé of the grande dame of Zionism: Dianne Feinstein, one can go far. If one is pro-Israel, one does not have to be a democrat or republican.

rjj

@Kiracofe: "Recall that Christian Zionists went for Jimmy Carter back in 1978."

Watched that unfold. Family worried about my "morbid" fascination with televangelists. I don't remember any explicit Zionist message at the time, but was not concerned with what I considered "religious" themes - just the process of organization building and possibilities of its politicization.

About the same time or a tad earlier the Young Americans for Freedom had developed a then state of the aahht database of donors and activists on a gazillion dollar mainframe.

Along with the media attacks on Carter,** it was clear something alarming was going on.

** Cronkite sneered and jeered. Mark Shields vituperated. Shields was so over the top [as if Carter was his own personal Emmanuel Goldstein], I figured some "OPINION LEADER" had been buying him drinks in some DC watering hole and working him up into a spitting rage just before he went on air.

Sam Will

WRC,

Fully agree with you, Europe is on full alert as well and in absolute panic mode...especially with the looming hundreds of thousands of fleeing refugees from North Africa and black Africa. I understand that the Chinese, Indians are on full alert too.
With the looming "lock down" and other state/Fed. budgetary/monetary issues staring down on the good American people..., I wouldn't be surprised at all to see the Jasmine Revolution crossing the Pond ASAP....
And YES, some Banksters, Lobbyists, others... and Congressmen need to be hanged from a lamp post....


Clifford Kiracofe

rjj

Back then the focus on Carter's "Evangelical" support was something of a buzz. Close observers, though, noted the presence of the pro-Israel Jerry Falwell Fundi/CZ types etal in the mix.

Some today assess about 30% of "Evangelicals" are moderate-liberal while about 70% fall into the Fundamentalist category.

Fundamentalists began to use the term "Evangelical" as something of a cover to mainstream themselves. The older term of art "Fundamentalist" is specific to particular theopolitical doctine.

A Fundamentalist subset, the followers of John Nelson Darby's "Dispensationalist" cult, form the core of the hardline pro-Israel Armageddonist phalanx.

President Carter's books present good detail on the takeover of the Southern Baptist Convention by the hardline pro-Israel Darbyite Dispensationalists.

All this is important context for understanding the rise of the "Christian Right" and its penetration of the Republican Party.

I explain some of this in my book "Dark Crusade: Christian Zionism and United States Foreign Policy" (London: IB Tauris, 2009).

Rev. Stephen Sizer and Rev. Don Wagner have gone into the theological aspects of this subject in detail in their books on same.

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