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26 January 2011

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kassandra

Weren't you once a part of Dayton's gang on the West Bank, those cheery "secularists" who taught the PLO how to track down Hamas? Take a look at the newly-released Palestine Papers, ten years of US/PLO/Israeli machinations.
I'll take your "Islamists" anytime, over those Zios that the Amerikeens worship.

CK

@Col Lang:
You asked: "So, you believe that the populations would be less poor and ignorant under Islamist rule? pl"
I have no way of knowing, as far as I can discover, Islamist rule has never been tried except for the wahabi experiment that is Saudi Arabia. I also suspect there are not enough energy resources in the world to allow the Chinese, Indian, and muslim billions to have a non-poor, American model
existence.

Patrick Lang

kassandra

I left government in 1994. I hardly know who "Dayton" is. I have consistently expressed the believe that Israel should make a truce with Hamas. pl

confusedponderer

Mr. Lang,

Like medieval Christianity it encompasses all the aspects of life and thus the Islamists stand ready with the support of the masses to take control away from the Europeanized seculars.
I stand corrected.

In my post I did ignore the popular support the Islamists must have had in Iran during the revolution. It is indeed implausible that they just seized power, and then held to it, over and against the will of the people, just as if that will was a monolithic thing, and secular.

Yes, with Islam being a seamless garment encompassing all the aspects of life, widespread popular support for Islamists is not just no surprise, but probably inevitable, until Islamists discredit themselves through excess.

Mr. Ciracofe,
Jasmine Revolution? So it does have a name now. Geez.

Cal

confusedponderer

Something tells me the neocons aren't exactly cheering this on.
Unless they have some multi layered, really convoluted plan to have Egypt progress from US friendly - to chaos -to Islamic rule so we we can put them on the axis of evil. LOL
I think the US and Isr want their friend Mubarak to stay- their preeminent interest is in 'stability'--the kind of stability and status quo we get from bankrolling rulers like Mubarak.

Mostly I think we should stay the hell out of it and wait to see where it will go.
"IF" the time ever comes when we have a 'legitimate" reason to interfere for 'real' US interest or gross violations of human rights unacceptable to the world we can cross that bridge then.
But I am too old..er..experienced to be holding my breath on the US actually walking their talk on their 'human rights' spiel.


J

Inspired by Tunisia and Egypt, Yemenis join in anti-government protests


now to our U.S., seems that IRA Provisional Military Arm Supporter Rep. Pete King wants to protect Big Sis snitches who finger the innocent.
AFP: Bill Would Protect Big Sis' Citizen Snitches From Lawsuits


J

David Habakukk,

Could we see 'revolution' on Britain's horizon?

Bank of England chief Mervyn King: standard of living to plunge at fastest rate since 1920s


Adam L Silverman

GregB: actually there are some really interesting parallels between what we can observe in the whole range of Islamic revivalism starting with it's early incarnation in late 19th century Egypt through to it's violent, reactionary portions with the overall Protestant Reformation. While I don't have the time right now to pull the citations and historical pieces together for you, I'll endeavor to do so over the weekend. To make the story short for this comment I'll finish with two points: 1) we often forget, or simply gloss over, the successive developmental stages of Protestantism and the Protestant Reformation, including the very bloody and violent portions and 2) it may be that monotheistic religions go through these developmental stages and at times produce violence as part of the aging or maturing or life course of the religion. The problem is we've only really got three case examples to work with, and one of them, Judaism, did almost all of its development while in a minority status, often as internal others, which seems to have kept it from falling into the same parallels. So for all intents and purposes we only have two examples, so that does something to the validity of the comparison.

Patrick Lang

James

"how has that whole backing dictators policy worked out for your country so far?" It has worked very well for us when we stick to it. pl

confusedponderer

Mr. Silverman,
the reformation is a parallel I also draw.

The point is, it turns my stomach to think about the consequences of such a reformation in the Muslim world. Ours didn't really went smooth.

I recall reading some neo-cons wagging their finger smugly, saying that the Muslims really need to afford themselves a reformation to rid themselves of that backward medieval seamless garment stuff to transform their societies.

I was in Münster not long ago, and visited the old city hall where they signed the Peace of Westphalia.

As a result of the sectarian wars and European great power politics following the reformation, rivers of blood were shed. Germany alone, which had the misfortune to be the primary battleground of the 30 years war, lost iirc an estimated 30% of its population in that war alone.

Gee, too bad for the Muslim world. One can't make an omelet without cracking some eggs I guess.

Monstrous!

Patrick Lang

James

The Baath government was not a quasi ally of Iran. pl

Ken Hoop

Mr. Lang and all---Read transcript of Jim Lehrer's Biden interview last nite.

Short version:

Lehrer "Is Mubarek a dictator?"

Biden "Since Mubarek does his best to do US-Israeli
bidding in Mideast affairs, he is not a dictator, no matter if he jails opposition and manipulates elections."

Very transparent. Very corrupt. Policy deserving of defeat and is getting it.

Patrick Lang

James

What's your country? If you don't reveal your location I will ban you. You say you have an argument. OK. Let's see it.

Our decision to invade Iraq was based on fantasy. and nothing else.

You would have preferred an Iranian victory? The only reason we backed Iraq with target data for their Air Force was that the Saudis and the Kuwaitis begged us to do so. We did not sell them anything significant in the way of materiel. The PRC and Warsaw Pact took care of that. Oh, BTW, they sold to both sides. pl

Patrick Lang

James

You are s Scot? You can't address me as Colonel? Actually, I would rather you did not.

"I did not have a dog in that particular fight"

Well, maybe you should have more respect and understanding for us who did. pl

Grumpy

Col Lang, as a Disabled American Veteran, from the South Jersey, US, from the 'Nam Era, but didn't go there. I went where the Military sent me.

In reference to Egypt, do you think we should be there? If so, doing what? Specifically! For how long? Who is going to pay for it and how?

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