« Freedom of Speech | Main | National Security Journal Blog - 6 December 2010 »

05 December 2010

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

BillWade

There's been some discussions elsewhere that Assange sold out to Israel and that's why we're not really seeing anything substantial about Israel in these cables. Is it possible that cables relating to Israel are handled differently? More secure perhaps? I'd like to think Assange isn't entirely just about the money.

optimax

Mark Logan,
Assange's motivation and character are not important. It's the product that is and here is a link to a National Security Information report (at wikileaks) that shows what concerns them.

First, Manning was stupid and bragged about stealing classified material to a somebody who turned him in. This report shows intel at this time does not know how to track a leaker from wiki's released files, but they are working on it.
Second, false information can be given to wiki and leaked because wiki is based on the trust that the leaker is providing factual information.

More here:
http://mirror.wikileaks.info/leak/us-intel-wikileaks.pdf

Cryptomeout has a good peice on why journalists and spies (gov) are threatened by wiki. Wiki is in the middle in this extract:
A man in the middle attack throws them for a loop, shakes the foundation of their claim to exclusive authenticity and credibility. Thus they are obliged to work in concert to destroy the threat to their economic well being, or find a way to bring the interloper into the lucrative rigged game.

Stanley Henning

The hell with WikiLeaks. The US-Zionist connection is far more important a problem than this. Also, why are we allowing the Chinese to go in and exploit resources in Afghanistan without expending any resources to help quell the Taliban problem. Let's wake up before we totally exhaust our resources in petty efforts to justify our continuing to waste resources to support a meaningless regime - especially since we seem to be incapable of causing the Pakistani's to give up their support of the Taliban.

Clifford Kiracofe

Walrus,

1. Thanks for the heads up on Robinson, QC. Most interesting indeed and I trust he will live up to his reputation.

2. The cable traffic so far looks pretty routine to me and gives indications of the quality (or lack thereof such as in the case of Georgia) of reporting from various posts. Les Gelb has a point that the diplomats seem to be doing their job.

3. One wonders why the newsmedia has not been able to report on its own on various situations around the world with at least some of the detail and perspectives the cables reports carry.

To me the cables reveal the depth of pallid stenography and gross incompetence permeating the US media when it comes to foreign "reporting."

4. Larger dumps of data rather than the dribble so far would be helpful for scholarly research. Much of this type of material would normally be available about 25-30 years from now when declassified per government practice per historical information on our foreign relations.

5. For those who have developed an interest in US diplomatic history as a result of Wikileaks here is a primary official USG/State source:
Foreign Relations of the United States (FRUS)

http://digicoll.library.wisc.edu/FRUS/

6. Giraldi is correct, there is much material that is overclassified and this is convenient for politicians and others. The 25-30 year time lag for official declassification does not help accountability IMO. Obviously sources and methods have to be protected, and this is a separate matter.

Assange etal. have simply moved the clock per this material much of which would be available in 25-30 years.

Anna-Marina

Marc Logan: “In short, I feel he [Assange] is an incompetent flake,” and “Manning [is] the poor stupid kid.”
Mr. Logan, why does your blood boils so much when people talk about Assange who put himself – and nobody can deny that – in danger because of the well articulated principles?
Some people give up their lives for their principles. This was the essence of Voltaire's beliefs: "I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.” Otherwise, there would be no Enlightenment, no liberty.

walrus

Col,ang,

I'm getting a ittle slow these days.

I've just realised that much of the cables relate to commercial transactions and potential business opportunities. Some of the cables have geat commecial value.

Given the "revolving door" appointment of ambassadors, public officers, etc. What Wikileaks is demonstrating is how the well connected at the heart of the military industrial complex make their money.

Assange will not be forgiven for that. Wall Street wil want blood.

Charles I

b, thanks for the link to the CIA/Ladies in White angle w/r/t one of Assange's accusers.

People, please check it out.

Angleton's Wilderness of Mirrors now has millions of mirrors, they are literally called on the net, reproducing content with who knows what sourcing, affiliation, alteration or other ulterior element.

I used to, still do, hunt down footnotes from texts, read those, find more, slog away, imagine at least I have some primary sources that checked out, I'm getting somewhere.

Assange has "moved the clock' on disclosure. Volume of material is obviating analysis, verification, consideration until the issues are moot, and academics eventually start to write - 25 -30 years later.

Now I just think we're being haplessly manipulated at all times. Admittedly by many disparate groups of humans of the caliber Pat maintains can't really keep a secret or impose their harebrained schemes. The lies are so conveniently exculpatory for our rulers they seem apparent on the face of them. But the truth is so remote, the internet a Mighty Wurlitzer of so many pipes and stops and of such volume as to defy detection of the one true note in the cacophony.

Assange and Wikileaks may be as they appear, which I tend to per Occam's razor, but all the rest, who knows?

After all, what's the latest on The Liberty?

The hysterics, the death threateners, well, they doth protest too much, too hypocritically, as noted.

I just hope the Banking Sector stuff gets out, hearing a news report on the Vatican working over the Irish gov re sex abuse commission as i type this.

Anna-Marina

On the so-Catholic Justice Roberts, MIC' "peaceful world,” and the most effective ways to get rid of the bill of rights:
http://www.truth-out.org/justice-department-prepares-expansion-laws-targeting-activists

Mark Logan


Anna, My blood isn't boiling.

That one can puts oneself (and another) in danger doesn't make one competent, nor does it make one honorable. What has been revealed so far that would be worth spending 10-30 years behind bars to reveal?

AFAICT, all that has been speared with his lance to date have been windmills. One can laugh at the Don without rejecting his his values.

optimax

Wikileaks is death by a thousand cuts for the rulers. Why else is Assange in jail? Governments are over reacting because they are losing control of the message.

The only reason Wiki won't change anything is that most people don't read the primary sources and only hear what is filtered through the MSM. And that message now is all about Assange's sex life. It's a smear campaign and it's working. It brings to mind a video I saw almost thirty years ago. It was Don Henly's song "Dirty Laundry" with outtakes from newscaster primping themselves, looking pompous, and police beating rioters in the streets. The video was profesinaly edited. The only other person I've met who has seen the video said he saw it in training to become intel in the AirForce. It was presented to them as an example of well done propaganda. It is illegal to own the video. It was then I realized the state takes very seriously its job of controlling propaganda because that is the basis of its power.

Anna-Marina

Optimax,

The ruing bastards have a habit to prettify themselves for posterity. But times are changing. The poor Madoff’s son could not live through the infamy. Ms. Rice became known as Ms. “mushroom cloud” and nothing can ease her dreadful notoriety. Blair’s and Bush’s children will meet the cripples of Iraq. Those with no decency, like Rubin and Feith and Yoo, cannot separate their progeny from the world, and the retribution can reach the crooks by a strange path…

Anna-Marina

How American companies Visa, Mastercard and PayPal support illegal activities:

http://www.crikey.com.au/2010/12/13/funding-illegal-israeli-settlements-priceless/

Bruno

I understand I am a little late for this post. But I was away in Dubai with other priorities. However the topic is still relevant and also paramount to understand where our republic might be headed.

@ the author:

"Wasting personnel, weapons systems, materiel and national treasure on military follies can certainly be said to threaten national security. Yet those on the right and the occasional leftist refuse to admit this. "

"The selective morality of the right and the chattering classes is nothing if not hypocritical."

It seems to me Sir that you are focusing way too much on the right when it comes to hypocrisy. Most of the decisions taken by the Obama administration since they took office, as well as the ones made by Democrats in Congress have all shown a total continuity with the previous administration policies.

Selective morality is not the panacea of the right anymore. And the leftists who have joined their ranks are more than occasional if you consider some of their past and present political gesturing.

Glenn Greenwald was one of the first to acknowledge and speak out about the Democrats’ deception and realize that on many issues dear to them, the left would be no different than the right.
In his post date 2009 New and worse secrecy and immunity claims from the Obama DOJ, he clearly lays out how Obama's DOJ, in a calculated, under-the-radar way announced that it was claiming secrecy powers that far exceed anything that Bush's DOJ ever dared to claim for its Executive Branch, "sovereign immunity":

"In other words, beyond even the outrageously broad "state secrets" privilege invented by the Bush administration and now embraced fully by the Obama administration, the Obama DOJ has now invented a brand new claim of government immunity, one which literally asserts that the U.S. Government is free to intercept all of your communications (calls, emails and the like) and -- even if what they're doing is blatantly illegal and they know it's illegal -- you are barred from suing them unless they "willfully disclose" to the public what they have learned... Everything for which Bush critics excoriated the Bush DOJ -- using an absurdly broad rendition of "state secrets" to block entire lawsuits from proceeding even where they allege radical lawbreaking by the President and inventing new claims of absolute legal immunity -- are now things the Obama DOJ has left no doubt it intends to embrace itself."

Of course Obama and Holder's claim is constitutionally bogus (and shameful for Obama, a former Constitutional law professor). What should be disturbing for those who voted for Obama is his willingness to outperform Bush in the pursuit of The Unitary Executive.

One of Obama’s first move when he took office was to issue an executive order to close Guatanamo and hold military courts taking place there. Two years later Guatanamo is still open and Obama just issued a new executive order allowing new military commission trials to proceed.

Some people will get a civilian trial, some a military tribunal by en large pretty appropriate, but a third category of a fairly substantial number of people are kept year after year with only the most cursory review of their status. And the idea that you can keep them in legal limbo in perpetuity doesn’t seem to bother the Democrats at large, the usual suspects when it comes to the defense of Civil Liberties.

As I said the selective morality of our politicians is not the panacea of the Republicans. And stressing on the Right exclusively and selectively not only polarizes the public discourse with no benefit, but also prevents us from looking at the real ills that have plagued our Republic.

But maybe as CWZ suggested:” Making the right decisions is more important than wondering whether we're being hypocritical or not.”
And I cannot help then but think of what Ambassador Freeman once said about the regime in Saudi Arabia: There are more U.S. Ph.D.’s in the Saudi Cabinet than in our Cabinet and Congress put together.
Could they get it right most of the time?


MSM ganged up with our rotten political establishment against Assange not only because “it is an infringement on their turf” but also because it shows their total lack of professionalism and lack of benefit for the general population who pays them to get news.
Whatever Assange’s motives, his organization’s leaking should have by now taught many concerned citizens a few important and valuable lessons on which to ponder before entering a voting booth:

1.The news media organizations are useless to the extent that they do not share with us real news and information. It is clear to anyone who has friends in those organizations that a lot of the information revealed by those cables was common knowledge among journalists. There is much more those journalists could and should share with the public. But their allegiances are not clear at best and treacherous at worst. The current financial stress on many of those news media organizations will eventually help clear this profession from the vermin that has infested them.

As Walrus puts it: “The cables draw attention to the yawning American chasm between what "real people" are talking and thinking about and the simplistic, false and downright misleading worldview that is being peddled every day by the mainstream media to a the American public. There was a time when the great American media would have teased out all of the information in these cables from penetrating discussion with Administration sources, analyzed it, summarized and paraphrased it, then reported it without fear or favor. No more.”

2.Also, considering the cables leaked, it is clear to me that no ordinary citizen can make sound judgments in a voting booth when deciding what our foreign policy ought to be and who best to represent it.

However, WikiLeaks gives the general population an insight on the realities of foreign policy that could help people like James make educated guesses before choosing their representatives.

It gives us also a broader insight on the realities of leaders who otherwise are simplistically portrayed by MSM as ignorant, greedy and downright tyrannical.

The more I ponder about WikiLeaks the more I turn into an elitist.

The comments to this entry are closed.

My Photo

July 2020

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
      1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31  
Blog powered by Typepad