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14 November 2010

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samuelburke

Col, we know that as a nation we have problems but what will we do about them?

hell, i don't know.

keep hoping?
keep complaining?

John Waring

I never thought any US Administration could be this craven.

Anthony

contrary to neocons appeasing/weakness charge on obama vis-a-vis Iran, muslim world... THIS is real weakness. How would this look in the eyes of the world? Do we look like an independent America or an America that can be coerced very easily by powerful foreign lobbies?

We are a weak America partly thanks to our special relationship with Israel.

optimax

What do we get for our tribute paid to Israel? God's protection, or is it just an old fashioned criminal enterprise? I'll go with the last of American sovereignty and continueed looting of our future wages--debt slavery.

William R. Cumming

Historians often unwrap the story of the failure of civilizations or nation-states in the past and their ceasing to exist. Usually comes from internal problems and decay if my reading is correct. Not from outsiders destroying them unless the destroyers have some long term staying power--e.g. The MONGOLS in India?

Arun

If you've read ProPublica's Sebastian Rotella in the WaPo, you know the US is a weak country indeed. It continues to fund and arm an "ally" that kills Americans.

BillWade

With all due respect to Mr Silverman, this is precisely why the term ZOG is drifting from the fringe to the main stream.

With the somewhat new TSA procedures that take away the dignity of the USA citizen (and others) some people are waking up to the fact that we are no longer independent/free.

I figure we lost our freedom and independence when the prison at Guantanamo Bay was opened, when torture became policy when the name "Homeland Security" was penned, but mostly for me it was when Bush said "they hate us for our freedoms", I figured something would be done so we wouldn't be so hated anymore. The question for me was, "who hates us"?

Clifford Kiracofe

Obama sent a clear and unmistakable signal by his attitude toward the Israeli attack on Gaza. Thus no surprises on subsequent US Middle East policy under Obama.

While the US mass public is too dumbed down to understand the political situation at home and the role of the pro-Israel Lobby (Jewish Zionist and Christian Zionist), the rest of the world certainly sees it.

Russia and China could exploit global anti-Americanism as could the Euros and Japanese.

It would appear that the machinery of the US government and American power with respect to foreign, defense, and financial policy is in the hands of transnational forces.

Independent? Doesn't look like it. More like a return to a colonial status some of our families once lived under and from which they eventually liberated themselves a couple of centuries ago.

Prospects? The incoming Congress will be more pro-Israel and jingo than the present one.


Lee B

Just out of curiosity, how is little Isreal supposed to defend us? These are supposedly mutual defense treaties, aren't they? Anyone see the Isrealis do anything on 9/11?

Patrick Lang

Lee B

In all my experience in dealing with Israel for the US Government I do not recall any material benefit that ever occurred for the United States in our many verbal and written agreements with them.

Ah. I forgot the bars and women in Haifa and Tel Aviv for sailors and marines on shore leave.

There is no treaty between the US and Israel becasue the Israelis and their confraternal associates here would recoil in horror from such a thing as ceding some measure of control over them to Gentiles. pl

eakens

Col, in your assessment, would we be able to sell the Saudi's the amount of military hardware that we do were it not for the existence of Israel?

Patrick Lang

eakens

Yes. The geopolitical life of the region would go on. No one in SA thinks that they can fight the Israelis successfully no matter how much materiel they buy from us. pl

Clifford Kiracofe

Bibi may perceive the incoming US Congress as more pro-Israel thus giving him more room to move. Also, Bibi has seen the weakness and submissiveness of the Obama Administration clearly demonstrated. So what else would he do, Bibi being Bibi?

For some background on extremists in Israel forming part of Bibi's general political base on the extreme Right and who are allies of US Fundamentalists/Christian Zionists:

Israel Shahak and Norton Mezvinsky, Jewish Fundamentalism in Israel (London: Pluto Press, 2004. New Edition). Norton is now working on a book about US Christian Zionist Fundamentalists.

Jackie

Clifford: This is off the topic, but in "Dark Crusade" on page 172 I noticed one glaring mistake. "Congressman Tom DeLay (Democrat - Texas)", how about Republican - Texas?

Jake

Deal? That word infers that two parties have mutual benefits to an agreement.

What agreement? And we get what out of this?

crf

I'm surprised Netanyahu didn't ask for Obama's peace prize. I'm sure he'd have given it up too.

walrus

It's not about you, it's about Obama. You are watching a Captain at the wheel who has no idea where he wants to go, he just likes being the one in charge. He steers the ship this way and that as the officers and crew make self serving suggestions to him; "Let's go this way for a while and maybe we will see some land". The ship turns in circles. Shall we steer towards individual freedoms and close Guantanamo? Well, maybe not today... Meanwhile, the leaks in the hull are getting worse, and no one is fixing them.

Like at least one skipper I've had the misfortune to sail with, I suspect that Obama believes the last person who spoke to him. That is why we see ad hoc and progressively more bizarre decisions, such as this one, being made that do not appear to be based on any clear and coherent overall strategic vision on Americas part.

As far as I can tell, Bibi is the only non - domestic supplicant offering helpful but self serving advice to the great man. One has to wonder if Obama gave in under threat that Bibi was going to attack Iran if he didn't get his wishes fulfilled. That might be consistent with Harpers posted information.


Mary

Here is a great article by Mark Perry in Foreign Policy on what a historical blunder the "deal" is. His thoughts are in line with Col. Lang's.

http://mideast.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2010/11/15/not_one_cent_for_tribute_obamas_embarrassing_gift_to_israel

When will America wake up to the ignominies Israel constantly visits upon us and the true extent of their leeching of our blood and treasure?

I voted for Obama, in part, to stop a war on Iran and to address the plight of the Palestinians. As angry as I am about all of this, walrus, I suspect that McCain and Palin would have already greenlighted the bombing.

Col. Lang, that Harper piece is one of the scariest things I've ever seen posted here and the anger on this site is absolutely kinetic. Let's hope it catches.

Clifford Kiracofe

Jackie, yes there were a few typos in the MS which as happens were not corrected in proof in time for typsetting.

2nd Op

All the comments are on point. But there is no answer to samuelburke's question. What, if anything, can Americans do to to change the policy of our government?

Bart

CRF: "I'm surprised Netanyahu didn't ask for Obama's peace prize."

Netanyahu could win a Nobel Peace Prize to top all such prizes if he would manage to get his unhappy country to move to a more favorable location; of which there are many in the world.

zanzibar

Has there been another instance in history when the dominant global economic and military power:

a) voluntarily dismantled its industrial base and shipped it to an economic adversary

b) allowed a weak client state to dominate its political institutions and determine its foreign policy in a critical resource region

c) enabled collusion between its financial elites and political elites to loot the rest of the populace, placing narrow private interests ahead of the national interest

If there are any such historical precedents how did it turn out?

Clifford Kiracofe

For those interested in a close examination of US policy anent Palestine and Israel:

Kathleen Christison, Perceptions of Palestine.Their Influence on US Middle East Policy (Berkeley: University of California Press, 1999. Paperback 2000)

Kathy's book is the best concise study I have seen in this regard and goes Administration by Administration from Woodrow Wilson through Bill Clinton.

William R. Cumming

Was BIBI born in the US or just raised here?

Jackie

Clifford: Thanks, I'm glad that typo wasn't intentional. Your book is a really good read.

I've heard Kathleen Christison and her husband speak before. I think that was when my sympathies did a 180 and allowed me to look at the situation differently.

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