The passion of the ignorant and bigoted

 "Were the actual burning to take place, the safety of our soldiers and civilians would be put in jeopardy and accomplishment of the mission would be made more difficult.""  WAPO

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Petraeus is obviously correct.  The US has gone to a lot of trouble to try to establish the idea that the US is not at war with Islam.  It has been poorly done, but nevertheless it has been done.

Now we have this semi-literate "pastor" in Florida who is going to burn the Qur'an in a public spectacle to "send a message to MUZLIMS that we don't want Sharia law here..." The message, in fact, is a declaration of war on Islam.  As Petraeus sees, the MUZLIMS will react to that declaration.

The vast majority of MUZLIMS (Muslims) understand the Qur'an to be the uncreated word of God.  They do not think that the book was written by Muhammad under the guidance of God. They think that the Qur'an has existed from all time in its present form and words as an aspect of the mind of God and that it "descended" to earth in the time of the coming of Islam.

Do you think that they will not react to this insult?  pl 

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/09/07/AR2010090701595.html

PS  The photograph is of a ceremony for the dedication of a statue of St. Anthony at the Catholic school at Aleppo in Ottoman times.  pl 

Comments

[Jake]

Reaction? "American soldiers felt the backlash. Protesters threw rocks at a passing military convoy."

( http://www.wesh.com/r/24904696/detail.html )

I got a better idea. Lets take both the radicals and folk like Pastor Jones and do the dueling pistols thing.

Except rather than pistols let them use daisy cutters and 20 paces and see who wins?

[Jake]

P.S. the daisy cutter duel? Includes the 31% or 39% (depending on the POll) of our idiots who said yes... Might as well clean out our own house while we are at it.

Do you support this Gainesville pastors plans to burn the Quran on Sept. 11?

Yes 39%
No 57%
Undecided 4%

http://wdbo.com/localnews/2010/09/florida-pastor-takes-heat-for.html

http://www.cfnews13.com/ipolls

[ked]

Not over-reacting to poorly-mannered dumbass nutcases will be good therapy for Muslims who wish to progress in the global community.

'Course, we could learn a little ourselves in dealing with Beck.

[William R. Cumming]

PL! What is the Arabic word for "ecumenical" and how does it translate?

The Florida Pastor is indignant but not "rightously indignant" as described in the Bible!

[lina]

Why does some crackpot in Florida get all the ink/air time? When did crazy become mainstream? My high schooler just finished reading Farenheit 451. Maybe I should pick it up.

[John Minnerath]

Of course they will, and Islamic moderates will have a hard time trying to quell the fury!
The flaming bigotry against Islam that exists is amazing.
I just bought a new rifle in a fairly recent hot new caliber for bench rest shooting.
I decided to look around for a forum about the caliber to find out a little more about it.
Comments about Islam and Arabs in general on these sites are outrageous.
This present issue is now raging, statements being made give me serious pause about the state of mind of a lot of westerners around the world.

[Sidney O. Smith III]

One of the more bizarre alliances in these strange times is between Northern Jacobins and preachers of this ilk, and they most certainly are prevalent in the South. Dr. Kiracofe has done much to explain the reasons for the alliance, and it rests upon the idea of a greater Israel.

Of course, rapturists support a greater Israel, in essence, because they want to see all the Jews of the world gathered into one place so they can then promote a religious war in which bombs fall on Jews.

Odds are very high that this Florida preacher is a rapturist. With friends like this…

The fact that the “ignorant and bigoted” are, in many ways, now Israel’s closest friends in the US really tells you all you need to know. Uh…no thanks.

[Abu Sinan]

Sir,

Hate like this is never isolated. This man on his pod cast was asked if he would also burn a copy of The Talmud. He said he would.

Heinrich Heine once prophetically said:

"Where they burn books, they will ultimately also burn people."

The Holocaust happened less than a year later.

[Brien J Miller]

Some reports suggest that this “semi-literate” Florida pastor has a church of perhaps fifty followers. That’s fifty (50). It begs the question: do we not foolishly give credence in some form to this semi-literate pastor and his insignificant gaggle of followers when the spectacle seeking, 24-hours news (entertainment) media covers it? Does it not acquire a life of its own when a high ranking U.S. Military Commander then feels the need to publicly denounce it? Yes, the 24-hour greed-fueled news-cycle ratings chase that results in the broadcasting of any spectacle, no matter how inane, is a lamentable failure of monumental proportions; but that it can co-opt senior levels of the U.S. Military command into this Savonarolic show in order to try to avert its very foolishness speaks volumes about the lack of cohesive policy to counter the rising tide of Beckian ignorance and the inevitable acts of this kind that is taking hold in a country filled with titillation seeking “news” hounds.

[rjj]

I wondered:

1. if the "pastor" thought that bit of mischief up all by himself or did he have help.

2. how did this action by a "small obscure group" in East Bushistan get hyped into a national news story.

[Patrick Lang]

Brien Miller

It matters not how WE react. What matters is how THEY react. pl

[Adam L Silverman]

Sir,

I used to live in Gainesville while doing my doctorate at UF. If this is the guy I'm thinking of he has a history of doing stuff like this. Likes to try to burn records and other media he says is deviant around Halloween - that sort of thing.

And you are 100% correct it is how they'll react and respond. It is hard to disprove the bin Laden/al Qaeda IO and PsyOps when we're giving the truth to his lies more and more frequently. The true target of terrorism isn't the immediate victims, it's everyone else and the point is to influence them to respond in ways that they normally wouldn't to achieve the terrorists goals. It seems that al Qaeda has been able to maneuver us right where they want us.

Finally, has anyone else noticed that we have more of this stuff now, all of a sudden, than we've had in the past nine years? Something strange is happening to us as a society and I think it'll get much worse before it gets better.

[Abu Sinan]

Opps, sorry, I meant less than 100 years later, considering Heine died in the mid 1800s.

[Jose]

Why are we in Florida blessed with so many idiots?

Dr. Silverman, I think we have reached the same level of paranoia as ALL the Middle East fanatics.

Increasingly, as things begin to get worse for America, we are turning GWOT into a Crusade.

[Tony]

The more I think about it, the more I am convinced that my “conspiracy theory” is not that far-fetched! There are intentional acts to polarize people.

[John]

Pastor Dude is gonna have a lot more than 50 members in his church and a lot more money in his pocket when this is all over.
For a grifter, it doesn't make any difference how it all turns out after the circus leaves town.
And it also conveniently fits the narrative of the neocon zombies who want a war with Iran and have to gin up the population to hate muzlims more.
Just another day in Grifter Nation.

[Lysander]

I have to say the pastor is the symptom rather than the disease. The US is committed to ensure Israel's continued supremacy in the middle east. It is fighting a counterinsurgency war in two Muslim nations, one of which was invaded based on a false pretext. Raids are constantly conducted into a third Muslim country. (Pakistan) The US constantly announces its right to attack Iran anytime it sees advantage to doing so. It had maintained severe sanctions on Iraq (which, BTW, have yet to be lifted) and constantly seeks more sanctions on Iran.

Now, perhaps the US feels it has very good reasons for doing all this, but be that as it may, it sounds a lot like being at war. If not with Islam, than certainly it is acting against the wishes of most Muslims.

Now the Qur'an burning doesn't help much, but it's really small beer compared to the rest. By itself it would be forgotten. I mean, how many Muslims are still mad at Denmark today?

[BillWade]

10 minute Ron Paul interview on CNN:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CxJSYgOCljs

Ron Paul had to be marginalized and replaced by the Becks and Palins of this world which in turn has bred the likes of the crazy Pastor. Ron Paul's message of peace and tolerance doesn't play well with the MSM, they prefer to create fear, Islamophobia, and cultural divide. It's too bad, he would have been the right person to be leading us in this day and age.

[GraeCastle]

ALS,
I have noticed it also and its frightenly sad. As well, its sadly frightening. And, it's not just this topic. Pick just about any issue that's "top of mind" (US MSM induced) these days - the lunatic fringe is becoming less fringy (and seemingly more lunatic).

thanks again Col for keeping this dialogue. i continue to read your comments daily but haven't had too much to say that isn't already being said by your more vocal followers.

[Fred]

Adam, small world as I went to UF as well.

I wonder if Pastor Terry Jones is up in arms over the Hare Krishna's giving lunch away on campus. As I recall the biggest Hare Krishna temple is in Alachua, 8 miles North of campus.

Lord help us if the pastor ever reads some of Marvin Harris' works. The fire dept will be busy then.

[Steve]

Mr. Silverman--

"Finally, has anyone else noticed that we have more of this stuff now, all of a sudden, than we've had in the past nine years? Something strange is happening to us as a society and I think it'll get much worse before it gets better."

Yes, of course, we have "more of this stuff". And trying to decipher what's become of this country is increasingly difficult. I say this as someone from the late 20th century who perhaps, foolishly, believed in some sort of "progress".

And, yes, I've always known that such "progress" is ephemeral and perhaps ahistorical, but still, the present state of things is much worse than I could have imagined, naively, 40 years ago.

[ghoti]

Dr. Silverman,

Thank you for posting commentary that is consistently among the best I have seen not only here but anywhere. Perhaps the most difficult thing to see is that many reasonable people are defaulting to some of this hateful nonsense, but then again this to be expected when it is so pervasive. In essence, when people constantly see nutty position a vs. nutty position b on nightly commentary shows, instead walking away from this false dichotomy they default to one or the other.

There is a book by Anatol Lieven called "America Right or Wrong" that delves into possible reasons behind this type of nationalism. He is a Brit that greatly respects and admires the US but is concerned about these trends, as I think many of us on this blog are. It may be worth looking into.

As far as solutions, that is the $64 thousand question. I've thought that making concise bumper sticker arguments that undercut some of the implicit messages in this hypernationalism might be a solution, or that hit at the underbelly of those making such cases, but I am now questioning that.

What the new right has that is so powerful is access to divisive issues and the ability to broad swathes of America that they are being persecuted. It is an easy case to make when people feel insecure about their future. I used to think that redirecting the new right's own methods against it would be a good idea. With the degree of emotionalism in public debate now, I think it would just make things worse.

[optimax]

What do you expect from a people frightened by a toy pony?

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/news/nationworld/sns-viral-video-exploding-pony,0,2259844.htmlstory

The Koran burners are fools but are protected by the First Amendment. It would be best if the press ignored it. Since it won't Muslims, like everyone else, should realize what other people think about you or your religion is unimportant, and fifty idiots don't amount to a hill of beans.

[mo]

May I postulate a different blowback/consequence? Although this action will most likely lead to some demonstrations/flag burnings and the odd mob outside the embassy routines that I am sure is exactly what is intended, those that will actually suffer the most from these images broadcast worldwide are going to be what the West likes to call the "moderate" Muslim leaders.

It is these guys that will be hardest pressed to explain why and how they can continue being in cahoots with America. These kind of actions will keep pushing the people up against these leaders and sometime somewhere the strain will give and the snap will not be to the West's liking.

And personally, if these kind of actions put on pressures and lead to the overthrow of our kings and dictators then I can only look on in glee.

[Farooq]

I have been living in US for nearly 10 years now. Born a muslim in Pakistan. Right after 9/11 a group of local church goers came to our student community and said they'd protect us and we shouldn't be afraid. This is Alabama i am talking about. I will never forget that expression of love and humanity by those people.
This guy is a nutcase. We have proportionally more nutcases like him back home. I think he should be ignored.

One ironic thing is, that when he burns Quran he will also be burning the praises of Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Mary(others as well Jacob, Joseph etc) that Quran is litered with.

There is whole passage in Quran that is named after Jesus's mother Mary ,surah Maryam (Maryam being Hebrew/Arabic name for Mary)

It is heartening to see that there are plenty of people in USA who find what he is doing as distasteful.