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25 September 2010

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JohnH

"Let these fools fight each other and commit further bestialities upon each other"...without any American aid whatsoever. No spare parts, nothing.

Cameron

Col.,

Of course we will not walk away. We will continue to be Israel's consigliere in Asia until the whole system of global relations collapses. Then (if not before) we'll collapse too.

Stanley Henning

Pat has said it all. If they won't get it together, then we need to distance ourselves from this no-win bottomless pit. On the other hand, it is time to re-look our view of the Islamic world and, at the same time, offer them some well-intentioned views. "Jihad" does NOT mean war in the unadorned sense that we seem to view it. In fact , it is a much broader concept for "struggle in the midst of belief" as opposed to some narrow, ignorant, approach to religious war as some have categorized it. Not only do we non-Muslims need to better understand the real Islam, but Islamic believers need to rethink their approach as we move into the 21st century. In a way, Jihad represents an approach to the various views we have as humans in solving our problems. It does NOT mean religious warfare, but finding our way in the jungle of nonsense placed in our way to achieving a world ruled by human understanding and common sense. In this respect, I hope that the serious leaders of the Islamic world will ruminate upon this question and unite in an effort to reflect the true humanity that Islam represents and openly deny the low class nonsense reflected in the terrorist groups that have managed to pollute the real world of Islam. The extremists such as Mujahideen and Taliban, associated with the so-called Al Qaida, do not represent Islam. They represent their own views of Islam. It is long past time for Islamic leaders to march forward together and condemn such counterfeit representations. It is a fact that the non-Muslim world has tended to misunderstand Islam, but it is equally true that the Islamic world has failed to adequately defend Islam. Both we and they have allowed the Israeli-Palestinian conflict to hold our greater interests hostage. Let's get it together and march forward to the benefit of all concerned and let's stop wasting our efforts on the smaller piece of the bigger picture.

Jake

Walk away? Walk away? Try run.......and get an unlisted phone number...

Let them work at getting us back into the fold....

CK

But if the USA were to walk away, and if an agreement were to be reached sans loud visible input from the USA, that would indicate that the USA is unnecessary. The USA cannot walk away, nothing acceptable ca be allowed to come into existence without the midwifery of the USA.

Anna-Marina

“We Americans should walk away.”
Absolutely. But first we have to stop the stream of US money to Israel. This is a bleeding wound. And what for? To prop the apartheid state of new Leberstraumists?

Lysander

Total walk out by the US would be ideal for US interests and certainly for the Palestinians.

However, what the US is now conducting is not meant to bring peace. It is meant to compel the Palestinians to accept whatever terms Israel is willing to offer. Failing that, the default step is to keep the so called process going indefinitely while Israel continues its expansion. The impression that the US is a mature and honest broker dealing with two squabbling children is a false one.

Therefore, since the US will never walk away, I hope the Palestinians do. If the Israelis are to settle them into nonexistence through a slow motion (or rapid) ethnic cleansing, than let them be forced to do it out in the open.

It is akin to a gunman holding you at gun point and telling you to get in the car. Your options suck either way, but better to force him to kill you in broad daylight rather than quietly in the night in the middle of nowhere.

s nadh

Since we are all realists here, what is it that Abbas should have said?

J

Stanley,

Just how do we the U.S. cut the 'apron strings' from the Israel side, especially with the Christian Zionists_Hagee_Robertson/Jewish Zionists who are all determined that the U.S. is Israel's dog in the pit?

Cato the Censor

Col. Lang:

Rather than walk away, my opinion is that the US will reach a point (sooner rather than later) where we are so exhausted, financially and otherwise,and our influence so diminished that we really won't have a say any more about the Middle East. That applies to Israel and everything else. Whether this will be good or bad remains to be seen.

Alan

I imagine that if someone said that about me and you Sir quarreling about my theft of your house and property while leaving you on the backyard to live under a tent for a few decades, that you wouldn't like the moral equivalence this post implies.

Especially if you had already resigned to the fact that you wouldn't get more than 22% of that property back under any circumstances, with me still owning a couple of tanks and you not allowed to carry even a slingshot as part of the final agreement you would have to accept. And which you would accept if I were serious about such an agreement and didn't intend to get the backyard too!

Not all things are equal.

Pirouz

Sir, with all due respect, how can this peace negotiation, itself, even be considered serious? The resistance- Syria, Iran, Hezbollah and Hamas- are not even included.

It's as if North Vietnam, the NLF, China and USSR were totally ignored during US efforts to find a solution in Vietnam in 1972! How unrealistic would that have been?

No, the current peace talks over Palestine/israel are a total sham, and Abu Mazen is just another puppet- no, even more of a dependent puppet- than the likes of Mubarak and the two Abdoullahs.

William R. Cumming

I would argue that part of the problem is that the US does not have a policy that reflects US interests and does not tell the world what exactly are policies are or what we would like to see happen. This allows the festering of the issue. Let's figure out what we want before we walk away.

dan of steele

isn't the real problem with Islam financial? Unchecked capitalism running into some fairly entrenched social norms practiced by Muslims?

AFAIK, it is not allowed to charge interest on money loaned under Islam. That certainly does not set well with the way Jews and now Christians operate. Though it is forbidden for Jews to lend money to other Jews in the Torah it is OK to lend to non Jews. The Christians had forbidden it all together for a long time but as we all know, that is no longer the case.

Capital has the loudest voice and is truly global. Is it too simplistic to assume that many of the problems the US is having in the world right now is a result of conflict between us and those who refuse to accept our business model? After all, the Chinese are certainly a bigger threat to the long term security of the US than a few tribal chiefs in Afghanistan yet we seem to be able to "do business" with them.

Sure, there is a lot of smoke and mirrors about deeds to land found in ancient manuscripts and the holocaust provides a lot of emotional support for Israel....even though a lot of Jews consider Germany a much more desirable place to live than Israel itself.

It is hard to tell who is playing who. Though the Jewish lobby is very powerful, it is my belief that it is so because of symbiosis. Once Israel becomes a liability only, it will get dropped like a hot potato. The US does not have a very good record of standing with old friends, as Mr Noriega can tell you and Saddam Hussein found out when he got to the end of the rope that hung him.

mo

"there is no real possibility of compromise.."

Colonel,
May I make one further observation.

There may be no real possibility of compromise because both parties in the room know that the other doesn't want it.

Not for any nationalistic cause but because, for Abbas, any compromise will be met with derision amongst Palestinians and any subsequent elections (if there were any) would see him pensioned off (and lose the lucrative contracts he has given himself and family). This is why even the uber-collaborator Dahlan has distanced himself from these talks.

And since the Israelis know this, they know they only need to keep talking until either he does "an Arafat" and declines any offer (which people will for years declare as generous even though it will be anything but), another intifada breaks out, or the Israeli elections swing round.

J

YouTube - Israeli Peace agreement will mean big war - Shamir


The Palestinian conflict is what is preventing Israel waging a war on Iran. If a Peace agreement is reached, no matter how bad it is. The US and Israel could count on many Arab nations to support a war against Iran and maybe Syria. So argues Israel Shamir, an eminent writer, his web site is at

Anna-Marina

mo,
It is really sad when the word "law" is completely omitted in a land dispute that involves murder

mo

Anna-Marina,

Its not really the lack of law, its the fact there is one "law" for one side and a different one for the other.

Adam L Silverman

Dan of Steele: the Judaic and Islamic laws pertaining to lending of money are identical. The prohibitions for both refer to what we'd call usury: rivite in Hebrew and riba'a in Arabic (both words mean to increase by four). The rules are so identical that it appears that the Hebrew was word for word translated into Arabic with the coodifications and interpretations from the Talmud into the fiq literature. I would venture that a believer would say this is a sign of the Deity's work in both revelations. A student of comparative religion would likely argue that the younger religion had similar borrowed the more developed applications from it's older relative.

dan of steele

Thank you Mr Silverman. My knowledge of Judaism as well as Islam is extremely limited. I have heard that the muslims have found ways around paying interest as it was simply impossible to do business with the west otherwise.

R.d.

Both parties know our phone number. pl

sir, add to that, one party also knows (has access to) our bank account very well!! via that body which is supposed to be representing us, the congress.

PM Netanyahu- Speech to US Congress- July 10- 1996

"We are deeply grateful for all we have received from the United States, for all that we have received from this chamber, from this body. But I believe there can be no greater tribute to America's long-standing economic aid to Israel than for us to be able to say: We are going to achieve economic independence. We are going to do it. In the next four years, we will begin the long-term process of gradually reducing the level of your generous economic assistance to Israel."

I suppose we should "aid" more calculators to the one party as the 4 years in now 14 years and counting....$$$$$$$

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