Minimizing the Damage in the Holy Land

 

"I feel like an officer on the bridge of the Titanic, who sees the awful iceberg looming up."  Avneri

-------------------------------------------------

This reminds me of the different kinds of plays in Shakespeare's opus.  Obama is telling us that this is the equivalent of the history plays, but it really is more like one of the farcical comedies.  If this is "A Midsummer Night's Dream," then who will be the ass?  pl

 Download URI AVNERY SEPT 4

Comments

[mo]

A farce is never truly a farce if it doesn't contain a character that thinks he is making some historical change while the rest of the cast and the audience snigger at his naivete.

The ass in this farce though is not Obama; The ass is that body of people called the Palestinians who continue to suffer the fools that lead them.

This "conference" is all about Abbas and Netanyahu making all the right noises so that they can maintain the status quo and in the end say "well we tried". Netnyahu can then make his cabinet buddies happy by lifting the settlement freeze and Abbas can go back to making himself and his cronies wealthier.

Arafat hated Abbas and only kept him close because he knew he was "close" to the US.

[WILL]

usoft word is a pain in the posterior.

here is the html ver

http://www.avnery-news.co.il/english/index.html

the most recent article "Damage Control" today is at the top. as more articles come out, it will be listed on the right margin.

i loved the article when i read it this morning, there
is a Japanese word for this kind of storytelling where different narrators tell what they see.

[WILL]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rashomon_(film)

as applied to decision-making re the example of the cuban missle crisis

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Essence_of_Decision

[FB Ali]

Mo,

I can understand your anger and frustration, but I think it is unfair (and unrealistic) to blame the Palestinian people. Even in democracies people have to put up with the leaders they elect (and the messes they make) until the next election - and sometimes even longer (eg, junior Bush).

The Palestinians have had only one chance to elect their leaders, and they chose Hamas instead of the corrupt, effete Fatah. The world made sure they got no mileage out of that. When someone like Marwan Barghouti began to acquire a following the Israelis locked him up and threw away the key.

Blame whomever you like (and there are plenty of villains who would deserve it) but don't blame the Palestinian people. Please!

[Jose]

Blame Foolbama for placing himself in such a mess, that is more likely to get worse once Abbas in finally discredited.

Like the Colonel has stated, neither side is done fighting yet.

"I am slow of study (Act I, Scene II)", but the only winners are Iran and the fanatics on both sides.

Foolbama is not going to get the Lion's part, unless it's from "The Wizard of Oz".

[CK]

Titus Andronicus, one can always hope. Such Top Chefry must be admired.

[mo]

FB,
I did not mean to blame the Palestinians. I rather meant that they were being made to lool like the ass by these leaders playing the "peace game";

My biggest fear is that these talks reset the so called road map but do so by changing the start point and end point so that the Palestinians get even less.

If they do not use the failures of these talks to demand change in their leadership then the biggest crime they will really be guilty of is apathy. The West Bank is being turned into a police state where opposition to Abbas (and Dahlan) is being silenced. If the Palestinians are unable to force a change, they will soon be living under the same kind of "nominal" democracy the Egyptians and the Jordanians enjoy and we will soon be talking about who Abbas "nominates" to take his place when he is dead.

[swerv]

Here is something quite interesting for you all:

After the initial reports of the first round suggested some positive movement, the first to respond were the Christian Phalange in Lebanon.

'“Today negotiations are under way to naturalize the Palestinians wherever they are,” [Phalange leader] Gemayel said in statement. He also rejected any “project of Lebanon as an alternative for Palestinians” and called for “true resistance” against naturalization.'

He was immediately echoed by FPM leader Michel Aoun. Aoun, typically a Hizbollah ally, leads a rival Christian faction in Lebanon that is more allied with the resistance and Syria than the Harriri block.

On this, however, the Christians in Lebanon were united. No Naturalization for Palestinians. Even after more than 50 years in camps, and even at the slightest whisper of a peace deal, the Christians have already drawn a hard line.

I'm not sure if the Obama people quite know what they are getting into.

http://www.dailystar.com.lb/article.asp?edition_id=1&categ_id=2&article_id=119037#axzz0ykXgGeiN

[David Habakkuk]

It's comedy all right. But much too black to be one of Shakespeare's, I fear. After all, however much pleasure Shakespeare takes in the absurdity of his characters, in A Midsummer Night's Dream things only teeter on the verge of catastrophe -- in the end they come right.

I think we need Stanley Kubrick, back from the dead. After all, Obama practically casts himself as President Merkin Muffley.

[par4]

Blame Harry Truman for recognizing this 'state' 11 hours after it was proclaimed. Our whole foreign policy since the end of WW II seems to be run by people drunk on power because the Allies defeated the Axis.

[Russ Wagenfeld]

Hi Pat,
If the current talks are a farcical comedy they are but a scene in what is more akin to a Greek tragedy with multiple actors cursed with a surfeit of hubris.
Regards,
Russ

[Jake]

Jose and others....

There are no winners in a Middle East War. The Ass? We as a species. The toilet? Who else! The USA!

[Ian]

It needs to be noted that the elected government of the Palestinian National Authority has been excluded from the talks. Condemnation of Hamas is one thing, but trying to pretend that they do not exist is quite another.

[J]

FB,

Didn't the Israelis fear Arafat because he had the capacity to form a Palestinian 'Army'? Since Arafat's demise, Palestinian 'protection' has fallen into Israeli orchestrated disarray. The only way I foresee the Palestinians having even half a chance, is for their reformation and pressing hard to reconstruct/re-form a 'standing Palestinian Army' capable of standing up to the IDF bully.

Why the surrounding Arab nations who decry the way the Israelis punish the 'unprotected' Palestiians, don't step up to the table and help the Palestinians form their own Army, I scratch my head in wonder. A 'protected' Palestinian populace is a win-win for the entire Mideast. Then the IDF bully has their bully pulpit permanently removed.

[J]

FB,

Imagine if a multinational Mideast Arab Army showed up as part of a 'mutual protection treaty' between the Palestinians and surround Arab states, the Israeli F15 air strikes on Palestinian children playing would suddenly stop. Imagine if the IDF guns were forced into silence by a 'mutual protection force' until the Palestinians have had the time necessary to reconstruct/re-form their own 'standing Palestinian Army'.

[walrus]

Occams razor suggests that the peace talks are a sham designed to lay the foundations for the Israeli expulsion of Palestinians from Greater Israel.

This will be synchronized with Americas bombing of Iran.

Conventional wisdom is that afterwards things can be smoothed over with the rest of the world because nobody cares about the Palestinians, Arab states secretly want us to destroy Iran, and in any case all Americans believe Iran posed an existential threat to the entire planet.

What other explanation makes sense considering the American and Israeli trajectory since 911?

[FB Ali]

J,

Imagining is easy; all it requires is a nice comfortable couch. The reality is that the last time a 'multinational Mideast Arab Army' showed up, it got its a** whipped by the Israelis. These countries are not interested in repeating the experiment.

A 'Palestinian Army' (a couple of battalions, actually) is being trained by the US. Their purpose is to take over responsibility for Israeli security from the IDF in some areas.

[Nancy K]

I read today that Israel's Foreign Minister, Avigdor Lieberman says that settlements will not be stopped. even though the Prime Minister says differently. A little power struggle going on here?
President Obama is weak, Abbas is ineffectual, and Netanyahu is a liar and cannot be trusted.
Why are we, the US, even attenpting this. There will be no peace in the Middle East until everyone wants it. President Obama needs something to bolster up his approval ratings, Abbas needs something to make him look like he is not just a pawn of Israel and the West and Netanyahu has his Foreign Minister breathing down his neck for his job.
Things do not look hopeful.

[Fred]

Walrus: "...expulsion of Palestinians from Greater Israel."

expel them where, Antartica? No country on the planet will take them.

[J]

FB,

Those battalions you speak of taking over, will be sub-servant to the IDF, instead of looking out for the security interests of the Palestinian populaces.

If the surrounding Mideast states don't want to man up in the interim and protect the Palestinians, at the least they could train/equip/provide the Palestinians with the necessary items to let the Palestinians form their own Army and Air Force so the equation would be balanced.

The IDF are bullies who kick around old women and children.

[WILL]

@Brigadier
"Imagining is easy; all it requires is a nice comfortable couch. The reality is that the last time a 'multinational Mideast Arab Army' showed up, it got its a** whipped by the Israelis."

The Miss-raawi (Egyptians) had the Israelis on the run all by themselves in October of 1973 until Nixon resupplied them much to the detriment of the U.S. No European country wanted to give the U.S. landing rights b/c the Egyptians were fighting a war of liberation to regain occupied territory per U.N. resolutions. Portugal finally caved in.

What tool did Israel use to coerce Nixon? Was it nuclear blackmail? we will go nuclear, if you don't make good our losses?

The nukes is what gave them the confidence for the
1967 war of expansion.

By the way, one often hears that the Paks have never fought Israel. Pak volunteers have shot down about 10 IAF fighters w/o ANY losses.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pakistan_Air_Force

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Nickel_Grass

[Lewie]

If Ms. Livni had been able to muster together a parlimentary majority rather than Mr. Netanyahu, I doubt whether an agreement would be much closer. It's really not so complex;
Who does Abbas actually represent? His term has expired. What would a signed agreement be worth signed by Abbas? Especially since he is demanding Israel essentially surrender as a pre-condition.
Colonel, you may be unsympathetic to Israel and The Jewish People, but;
what do you realistically expect them to do?
You can see what happened in Gaza. Is there any reason to expect a different outcome in the other disputed territories, once they are evacuated?
Please explain this hostility for Israel emanting from rank and file US Intelligence.
Please, educate me.

[mo]

haha..apologies for the lame humor Colonel but I realised this morning that these talks are not so much a Midsummers Night Dream but Much Ado About Nothing.

[Patrick Lang]

Lewie

People as partisan as you always see those who are neutral as adhering to their opponents.

I have no more inclination towards the Palestinians than I have towards the Israelis. They are all foreigners from my point of view.

I detest nationalism as Elie Khedourie defined it. "Nationalism is the love of one's people or group AT THE EXPENSE OF SOME OTHER GROUP." This, as opposed to patriotism.

The charge of anti-Semitism is merely the usual cheap Hasbara shot.

I have no problem with the State of Israel. If the Israeli state and its agents in the US would stop distorting American foreign policy through their covert action program I would lose interest in them. pl

[J]

Colonel,

I have a definite problem with the Israeli state and its covert action agents continually trying to steal U.S. Military tech on U.S. soil that Israel later sells (under-the-table) to the Russians and/or Chinese that then puts U.S. Military personnel in harms way. With friends like Israel who needs enemies? I can understand both Russia and China trying to protect their own obtaining data to improve their own systems, but the Israelis who claim to be a U.S. friend who later stab the U.S. in its back at every given opportunity.

I say kick every Israeli covert/overt action agent working on U.S. soil back to their precious Israel, the Israeli agents can go back to Israel voluntarily (living), or back to Israel in a body bag, makes no difference to me just as long as they are no longer on our U.S. soil.