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21 September 2010

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BillWade

Israel is only offering up a 3 month freeze in exchange for Pollard. As I read on another site, we should counter that by only requiring a 1 1/2 month freeze for one half of Pollard.

confusedponderer

The 'offer' is hard to beat in its sheer impertinence.

It is made without any serious intent on the Israeli part to ever live up to the promise made. Pollard is not nearly important enough to stop settlement expansion for. The offer is thus completely frivolous.

The sheer brazenness and blatant dishonesty of the proposal aside, it is equally striking that the Israelis have no qualms to generously promise to stop doing something that they are not allowed to do in the first place. The West Bank is occupied territory where Israel is not allowed to settle anyway.

jr786

The Israelis must have trouble recruiting new Pollards. I mean with all the wasta they've got on Capitol Hill it should be easy be to convince others that they'll be sprung if caught. Pollard proves otherwise.

I can't think of another reason why they waste time on this creep. I doubt it's loyalty.

confusedponderer

Didn't know that the freeze offered in return was only temporary. Figures.

Matthew

More Dylan Ratigan, I say. Have you ever seen a MSM figure ask questions like this before? See http://www.salon.com/news/opinion/glenn_greenwald/2010/09/20/iran/index.html

William R. Cumming

Is Israel a democracy?

There propaganda says so and is it accurate?

Of course the same question might be asked of the US?

Russ Wagenfeld

Hi Pat,
I may have lost the bubble on the Pollard business but I think I remember that he may have initiated contact with the Israelis who then leaped at the chance to get this kind of access. On the other hand, while I was never in collection, it seems to me that the Israelis should have known that someone as delusional and unbalanced as Pollard would prove too risky in the long run to employ. That he got away with so much for so long is a sad commentary on security in US Naval Intelligence. For a while, my duties included reviewing his jailhouse letters. On one level they were "entertaining...."
Bill Wade's suggestion has merit.
Regards,
Russ

Patrick Lang

Russ

Walk-ins count as recruitments once you accept their offer. pl

jerseycityjoan

Mr. Pollard should stay where he is because it's where he belongs.

For everyone involved in the so-called peace process, this is a laughable offer. For Mr. Pollard's family, though, this must seem like a perversely cruel joke on him and them.

This is such a blatant insult and instance of bad faith. History shows, though, that the Palestians will not use it to their advantage. Too bad.

WP

It seems to me that were I Obama, I would make sure some of those steady taxpayer funded U.S. remittances to Israel would suddenly be "delayed in the mail" until Israel "voluntarily" extended its settlement freeze. Perhaps, the Federal Reserve could also have some "computer problems" that would seriously delay certain key Israeli defense contractory from getting their checks cleared--at least for a "few" days.

Why in the world does the US put up with such outrageous behavior from Israel--or, do they own our whole government some how, a la Herbert Hoover and hif files?

Dan

As a Jewish American who generally supports Israel - this case makes my blood broil. It feeds into the worst things every Anti-Semite says about Jews and divided loyalties.

A traitor is a traitor is a traitor and should be treated the same whether the information was sold to Israel or Iran...

Lysander

Col Lang et al,

Why are the Israelis so concerned about Pollard? My guess is that they want to demonstrate to potential assets that they will try their best to get them out if caught. Thus encouraging more people to spy on Israel's behalf. Is that the reason? Or did I just stumble upon the obvious?

Stanley Henning

This brings to mind the even scarier possibilities for the military related technology we have provided Israel.

Retired (once-Serving)Patriot

Same ol'folks having the same old conversation from 1999. Clinton, Ross, Indyk, Bibi, Ehud, etc etc etc. Pollard's release as a part of an Israeli concession, freeze and then discuss more, etc etc etc. I guess the 'aughts really was the "lost decade;" nothing changes and we've lost even more of our civil freedoms.

As for Pollard and this entire "effort," the definition of insanity ("doing the same thing but expecting a different ending") applies .

RP

johnf

Matthew:

>More Dylan Ratigan, I say. Have you ever seen a MSM figure ask questions like this before?

How long's he going to keep his job?


Grimgrin

WP: Bush the Elder tried that. Held up some loan guarantees to get a settlement freeze IIRC. There are reports that he still blames the Israel lobby for his subsequent loss to Clinton. Also, Congress still holds the purse strings and as Steven Rosen memorably put it AIPAC can get 70 senators to sign a napkin in 24 hours if they want too.

walrus

A comment, and a question for Col. Lang.

I agree with Lysander and JR786, this offer regarding Pollard is to encourage others.

My guess though, is that it is not about recruiting new sources, but providing a little encouragement to existing sources to keep in touch.

Now my question for Col. Lang; I wonder how many naive American Jews, or perhaps American evangelical Christians, convinced themselves many years ago that Israel's and America's interests were one and the same and would be for ever?

I wonder how many of those folk decided, perhaps after a rush of blood to the head or re-reading Exodus (the novel), that plucky little Israel was morally entitled to the occasional helping hand, despite the law, and proceeded to give it?

I wonder if, given Gen. Petreaus comments, Beinarts article and Obamas early treatment of Netanyahu, among other developments, those well meaning but perhaps foolish folk might now be having second thoughts?

So my final wondering; What would be the effect on Israels intelligence gathering capability in America if the security services offered a period of amnesty, during which aforesaid foolish folk might confess their (notional) sins without severe penalty?

Could we, Col. Lang, perhaps decide, for a limited time only, that treason only occurs where money has changed hands?

To put it another way, how many are spying for Israel for emotional reasons? Do you think that some of these folk may be having second thoughts? Would an amnesty help accelerate that process?

Trent

Lysander, you may not like Israel's foreign policy but they have a consistent record of trying for the release of their POWs and spies. Sometimes giving more in return, at least numerically.

They could also be motivated by the cynical reasons you outline. That doesn't diminish the imperative they feel to protect and retrieve their own. Even if it's just the remains.

Patrick Lang

walrus

They are still recruiting Americans, and Australians.

The FBI has fully developed cases against many, many American spies for Israel. The Lobby effectively blocks their prosecution. Do you think Obama is going to allow their prosecution, given his political debts?

Even more worrying than the recruited agents are the agents of influence who are literally everywhere in the government and media.

And then, there are those Christians who yearn for the Rapture...

It is so much easier to prosecute Muslims with the full support of the Lobby. pl

confusedponderer

Lysander,
but don't you know that Israel does not conduct espionage in the US? Pollard was an inexplicable accident!

Bart

Settlement freeze? How about settlement removal? See the green map at Juan Cole's site.

Redhand

The offer struck me as so patently ridiculous that at first I thought it was a joke. How could they possibly think this was a viable offer? It's worse than presumptuous and arrogant: it's incredibly stupid. It is possible it is an "honor must be served" offer on Pollard's behalf that they know will never be accepted, but had to make (just as they do for every new President)?

PirateLaddie

The Zionists got much of Ersatz Ysrael piece by piece -- that's how they should get Pollard.

Phil Giraldi

There are two distinct issues here. First, would the surrender of Pollard result in good behavior by Israel? It would not. The so-called freeze has been a fiction with Israel expanding numerous settlements illegally. It would continue to do so. Second is the impact of a Pollard release. It would demoralize the intelligence services, signal that Obama is owned by the Zionists (which we already knew), and would be confirm that spying for Israel is no big deal and virtually consequence free. Recall for a moment that Pollard stole a greater volume of highly sensitive material than any spy in history. Much of it wound up in Russian and Chinese hands at a time when both were extremely hostile to the United States. Pollard should have been executed.

Patrick Lang


phil et al

I was a member of the JCS damage assesment board for this. He hurt us a lot. A very doubtful admiral in naval intelligence was responsible. pl

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