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29 September 2010

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walrus

With friends like these.........

J

Colonel,

It is like I said earlier, those Israeli military and intelligence personas who were Pollard's accomplices need to face U.S. murder and espionage charges, to the tune of 110 for their American victims alone.

Richard,

To heck with 'grace' in sending Pollard corpse to Israel, Pollard belongs in a potter's field, unnamed and unmarked forever just like many of his victims wound up.

MRW

Pollard should sit where he is until we can, with grace, send his body to Israel for burial.

I would omit the grace.

Fred

They are now simply twisting the knife.

zanzibar

Doesn't American political and military leadership have any pride anymore?

How could they deal with Ehud Barak and the rest of the crew in Israel that screwed them over and made them look like chumps?

John Walters

http://america-hijacked.com/2010/09/29/wake-up-america/

You might agree with Giraldi's comments on Pollard.


Let us further suppose that that individual violated his trust in the most egregious and vile fashion, offering to sell the information to anyone, but eventually settling on a nation ostensibly friendly to the US but not in any way a formal ally.

More tangentially, you might like:
http://committeeofpublicsafety.wordpress.com/2010/09/11/the-looming-numbers/

MRW

Wake Up, America! by Philip Giraldi on this issue. Don't miss it. It's great.
http://original.antiwar.com/giraldi/2010/09/29/wake-up-america/

Retired (once-Serving)Patriot

And yet we constantly complain about the perfidy of others (eg Iran).

Wouldn't it be nice if the President would state publicly, "what part of throwing away the key do you not understand?"

RP

Chris S

Try getting any serving politicians to criticize Pollard openly ..

Lewie

The USA and Israel are allies. Yet, the two countries have spied on one another for a long time. If Israel has sold US secrets, probably too, The USA has sold Israeli secrets. The problem was, from Cap Weinberger's perspective, Pollard made Israel too strong and cost USA too much. A little spying between friends was expected, but Pollard gave away the store. If he were a professional mole, and was discovered to be a spy, he could be fed false data, but Pollard was not detected early enough,
upset the applecart by throwing a monkey wrench into the works and had to be taught a precedant setting lesson. Pollard's defense claims Weinberger made a statement before his death that The Pollard Affair was a relatively minor matter which was made into something bigger. What exactly did he mean by that? Either he wrecked things or he did not.
Pollard obviously had not developed deep ties with the Israelis, on the contrary. Handler Eitan contemplated shooting Pollard himself.
I think Pollard was unstable and should have never ever received any kind of security clearance.
We have a competancy problem across the board in our country,let's be fair, it is not only The US Military.
I do not contest Colonel Lang's assertion that Pollard harmed US interests. Clearly Pollard did not care what the fallout was from his actions, how could he have. The volume of material was too great for anyone to carefully make such an assessment.
Maybe Woolsley is right, let him go!

William R. Cumming

Actually I don't believe that Israeli efforts to get Pollard released are based on faithful effort to protect one of their own who was a spy.

I believe the effort is to drive the notion that Israeli spying on the US is in fact not a threat to the US and Israeli domestic US ops should be considered impliedly authorized by the US. My arguments for this position are too lengthy for this blog. Oddly discussion of the "Liberty" incident fits this schema also. Why? Israeli belief that they and only they can determine whether US interests should be sacrificed whenever necessary to allow Israli freedom of action in their military and foreign affairs. As is self evident this trumping of the US by Israel is never discussed publically or in Congressional oversight, or action.

CK

Humans sometimes have friends and sometimes enemies; countries have neither, countries have interests designed by whoever is the current ruling heirarchy based mostly on inertia and organizational aggrandizement.

Medicine Man

Stunning — stunning that they would dare hatch such a plot against their own meal ticket and more shocking still that they would walk away scott free when caught.

I had no idea; words fail me.

walrus

Hasbara Lewie:

"The USA and Israel are allies. Yet, the two countries have spied on one another for a long time. If Israel has sold US secrets, probably too, The USA has sold Israeli secrets. The problem was, from Cap Weinberger's perspective, Pollard made Israel too strong and cost USA too much. A little spying between friends was expected, but Pollard gave away the store. If he were a professional mole, and was discovered to be a spy, he could be fed false data, but Pollard was not detected early enough,
upset the applecart by throwing a monkey wrench into the works and had to be taught a precedant setting lesson. Pollard's defense claims Weinberger made a statement before his death that The Pollard Affair was a relatively minor matter which was made into something bigger. What exactly did he mean by that? Either he wrecked things or he did not.
Pollard obviously had not developed deep ties with the Israelis, on the contrary. Handler Eitan contemplated shooting Pollard himself.
I think Pollard was unstable and should have never ever received any kind of security clearance.
We have a competancy problem across the board in our country,let's be fair, it is not only The US Military.
I do not contest Colonel Lang's assertion that Pollard harmed US interests. Clearly Pollard did not care what the fallout was from his actions, how could he have. The volume of material was too great for anyone to carefully make such an assessment.
Maybe Woolsley is right, let him go!"

Your argument boils down to:

"Everybody does it" (Cosi Fan Tutti)

"It was expected"

"America is at fault for not detecting Pollard"

"Pollard only did minor damage"

"America is at fault for giving him a security clearance"

"It's Pollards fault not Israel's".


Your Israeli talking points ignore the fact that if Israel was indeed Americas Ally, it should have refused to deal with Pollard and immediately alerted the U.S.

Instead it immediately made use of Pollard and did great and lasting Damage to America for its own Political, not Defence related, reasons.

Israel's actions are consistent with those of a parasite feeding off its host, not an ally.

Patrick Lang

walrus

There was another, even more egregiously insulting message from "hasabara highlander," the talking points were much the same. I posted this one but that is enough. pl

William R. Cumming

As state before Nation-States that rely on the constancy of the US are mistaken in their analysis of US military history and history of US foreign policy and foreign relations. It could not be otherwise in a democracy where the information flow can at best be hoped in the long long run to balance accuracy against error and be "fair and balanced'! It is the total absence of discussion of some of this blogs issues and discourse that tells me that self cenorship or actual censorship is taken place! No olne seems willing to ask why?
Perhaps blog control will be the next big effort of those who want none of the interested public to find out or even question official policy.
Speaking of that what are the bloggers of Israel doing?

Lord Curzon

The US Government should cut off his head and stick it on a pike as a warning to the next ten generations that some favors come with too high a price.

WILL

" While Pollard stabbed the United States in the back, Barak was smiling and smiling in his best "hale fellow well met" manner in dealing with DIA."

shxt eating grin- comes to mind.

WILL

But how do you weigh the damage of a mental misfit such as Pollard against that inflicted by the cabal of our national elite such as Scooter Libby, Feith, Perle, Wolfwitz, Senor, Elliott Abrams, Dubya, Cheney, et al.

The crew that hijacked 9.11 and sucked us into a trillion dollar war against a country that did not threaten us nor desired war w/ us. The causalities in blood & treasure are known & continuing.

Fred

Lewie said:
"...Pollard harmed US interests."

Pollard was an employee of the government of Isreal. They are responsible for all his espionage activities. Isreal could just as easily NOT used/sold/given away all the information obtained via thier employee.

BTW thanks for all the help you gave Ollie North and company selling arms to Iran, a country Isreal now wants to bomb.

R.d.

Pollard? he is safe, for now.. beware of the Art students.. they are back!!!

http://www.abc4.com/content/news/slc/story/Door-to-door-spies-in-Utah-County/sjOWsjk_zEqf6QeAfk4ZJw.cspx

http://dir.salon.com/news/feature/2002/05/07/students/index.html

MRW

Pollard's defense claims Weinberger made a statement before his death that The Pollard Affair was a relatively minor matter which was made into something bigger.

For the record, because I've been seeing this around the web, ostensibly from the pen of reporter Edwin Black, who also claims no American lives were lost as a result of what Pollard did: B.S.

For the record, Pollard's defense attorneys worked for Israel; Israel paid for his defense.

Nothing, nothing -- not even Israel's attempt to rewrite history -- overrides the 46-page memo that Weinberger wrote to the judge detailing the harm this traitor caused. Nothing. It was Weinberger who begged the judge to give Pollard life no matter what Dershowitz's plea agreement.

Pollard should have been hanged by his testicles. There's still time.

Jake

The USS Liberty. The CALEA Investigation back in 2001, the Israeli Moosad posing as art students, the economic spying and Pollard...

Lets see we just deported and traded without prosecution a bunch of sad rookie FSB trainees over so-called spying charges and we let Israel get away with what?

"We Have Met The Enemy and He Is Us"

Byron Raum

Mr Cummings,

I fear I disagree with you somewhat on the reason as to why Israel wants him released. I would suggest that the reason is more primal, in that Pollard's existence shows that American and Israeli interests are not the same thing. If he was pensioned off in Tel Aviv or something, he could be conveniently forgotten and we could all get along.

B.R.

brock Abdo

We punished Pollard, but we never punished Israel, on contrary, we had been rewarding Israel for more than 60 years.

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