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02 July 2010

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J

Colonel,

When the Israelis can't the get their way, the pooh and cry and do the 'poor me' routine.
World tired of us: Israeli minister


The Israeli war criminal see:

Israeli Minister of Trade, Industry and Labor, Binyamin Ben-Eliezer has it right, only he tries to twist it with a 'poor me' routine.

The world is 'tired' of Israel. The world now sees Israel as the 'terrorist state'. Nobody believes Israel's BS anymore. The world is 'tired' of hearing Israel's 'excuses', tired of feigning excuses for Israeli behavior (under intense pressure from Israeli lobbies of course).

The world sees that Israel was itself founded on 'terrorism', that it is Israel who founded modern terrorism, and it is Israel who continues to thrive on it. Israel is addicted to terrorism, Israel thrives on terror, and racism. Israel is a burden to our U.S.. Israel has no strategic relevance to U.S. at all.

The world is 'tired' of Israel, tired of Israel's cruelty and barbarism. And it's all by Israel's own hand.

Fred

"Traditionally, Israel's only truly abundant and reliable resource has been enemies." Here we go, again. I wonder who made all those enemies for Israel? Not the Isreali's, of course.

"It is time for Israel to once again be Israel. To stick by the principles that once made this nation strong. To abide by the promises it made to those who are willing to risk everything in its name." My, my like abiding by the stated 'principles' in their founding declaration?

I wonder what they will do when American taxpayers finally stop paying their (Isreal's) bills?

SAC Brat

You're just nasty. (sarcasm)

This reminds me of an National Geographic television interview several years back in Afghanistan where a maybe late 30 year old Special Forces Sergeant was interviewed and he asked the interviewer "Who do you want to fight these things? New recruits or nasty old men?"

Your post makes that $10/month easier.

BillWade

I'd be fearful too if I had stolen my neighbor's land(s).

Fear makes people do stupid things, an Aunt of mine took to wearing surgical gloves during the anthrax thing.

I think a lot of our politicians now live in fear that's been imported from Israel via AIPAC, how else can we explain the stupid handling of Katrina and now the Gulf oil spill.

Fearful and stupid, not my idea of a good government.

Jane

The Palestinian dialogue with the World goes something like this:

P: We don't care about the suffering of the Jews. It has nothing to do with us.

W: Oh.

P: We are suffering.

W: Oh. That has nothing to do with us.

P: That's not fair.

clifford kiracofe

"Fear"

This would raise the matter of psychology, or "national" psychology.

In this regard, Prof. Kevin MacDonald's highly controversial writings may (or may not) give some context.

He is in the field of "evolutionary psychology" which I must say is completely out of my area of research.

Fear is an important element in the politics of Diaspora management it would seem.

Pan

The Israelis seem to relish the thought of Palestinians in rags, starving and literally driven from their homes.

I recall reading about something like this happening in Europe in the 1939-45 timeframe.

Trent

Jane, your attitude and hatred assures Israel's self-destruction. I wish it were otherwise.

PL, Dr. Medzini told me, and a room full of students, that Israel gladly supported Hamas as a hedge against Arafat. HUofJ, spring '94. It was fun to watch my peers come to grips with that info. My roommate's father was in a settlement in the WB. He visited every Shabbat. He told his father this, that Israel supported Hamas and apparently the father said, "No we don't."

Patrick Lang

trent

One of my duties then was that i was head of liaison to IDF GS Intelligence.

The IDF intel men who told me this were general officers and they were not pleased that Israel was promoting Hamas. they thought it foolish. It was. pl

Trent

PL, amazing. Rules of Engagement issues and supporting the enemy are cyclical it seems.

Dr. Medzini also told a stunned room that the IDF, Knesset and PM all considered 10-1 death tolls, Palestinian to Israeli, to be the aspirational ratio, an indication that they were winning. 3-1 was unsustainable. Did you ever hear of such a theory or was he just trying to shock? He didn't seem that type of man.

Fred

Jane,

Are you speaking for the Palestinians now? Perhaps you could enlighten us on what is in thier interests?

Patrick Lang

trent

I must confess to having been ignorant of Dr. Meron Medzini until you brought him up. pl

b

I wonder about that fear.

Is it real? Or is it just a propaganda tale to explain away the colonial will and to justify the brutality the Israeli Jews have colonizing Palestine.

I believe it is the second point. Fear does not explain sadism.

---

An interesting piece at FP: Red Team -
CENTCOM thinks outside the box on Hamas and Hezbollah.

I wonder when AIPAC will start going after Petreaus. CENTCOM is now more "anti-Israel" engaged than the political side in the U.S.

Trent

Dr. Medzini was, perhaps still is, an amazing man and a world-class professor. I think he was Meir's press sec. He had the Israeli habit of laughing off criticism from Americans, especially from American Jews who were never going to make aliyah. But he did so gracefully and without insult.
Learning Israeli foreign policy from him was a gift. He taught 48, 56, 67 and 73 thoroughly and without emotion. As a great football coach might be able to explain an emotional game through x's and o's.
We've all had excellent professors at one time or another. I was lucky to be in his classroom.

NB I think I was the only goy in his class that year and he treated me with absolute respect and even interest.

N M Salamon

My worry is that the Israeli OFFICIAL insecurity/fear will drive them to attack Iran, wherein the USA will be the sacrifical animal, with dire consequences for the worlds' well being.

Were the interest of some other major economic powers be prejudicially affacted [e.g. China, Japan, Turkey etc] the consequences for both Israel and the USA would be very harsh, probabilty of Israel's Zionist survival set at 0 over 10 years at ther most. Uncle Sam, who is on a verge of economic colapse, will not be able to recover from such misadventure.

I pray that there are some adults in Washington.

Sidney O. Smith III

Documentary proof of the GOI’s decision to cultivate Hamas can be found in Bard O Neill’s pre 9-11 book, The Deadly Embrace, co-written, ironically enough, by Ms. Kass. It is all in that book, including proof that if the Israelis had taken a more COIN like approach, then odds increase of less violence.

But, as history is proving, the strategic goals of the IDF and (true) COIN are mutually exclusive, imo. The strategic goal of the IDF is to ethnically cleanse the Palestinians to create a racially pure Greater Israel, even if it requires an attempt to destroy the entire Muslim world.

And US neoconservatives have come to that conclusion, meaning they foresee that Zionism, as it has now developed historically, embraces a clash of civilizations . They realize that post 1967 Zionism cannot survive without such a clash, as the IDF cannot win irregular warfare. It’s won nothing since 67. The Israeli Martin Van Cleveld has made that last point time and time again, and that is why he has advised that Israel’s best chances are a return to the 67 border. If not, then you’ll see the aforementioned clash.

But US neoconservatives believe in a Greater Israel and reject Van Cleveld, so they have worked their way into the Pentagon and now are exploiting the American tradition of COIN for the goal of deploying as many US soldiers in the Middle East as possible. In other words, the strategic goal of the neoconservatives is to ensure that the USM protects Israel when the IDF violates international law to create a Greater Israel. They want to make sure that the USM fights Israel’s clash of civilizations. Nothing else matters to them, including, most certainly, the blood of US soldiers. The US neoconservatives did not care about the US soldiers in the 1960’s and even less so today.

It is one of America’s greatest paradoxes. The very ones who all but spit on the uniform in the 1960’s became the Pentagon’s closest advisers. They are not the ones who, in the 1960’s opposed the VN war with respect to traditions. No, not at all. Just look at how they responded during the build up to Shock and Awe; they called Vietnam Vet, General Zinni, a traitor. And the Pentagon yawned.

The Cheney-Wurmser option from a few years ago also proves this thesis that the neoconservatives care nothing for the US soldier. Cheney wanted to see Israel launch a limited strike against Iran, so an Iranian response would lead to the slaughter of US troops deployed in the Middle East. This slaughter would force a massive US retaliation, ergo, a clash of civilization on behalf of Israel, with absolutely no regard for the welfare of US troops.

Luckily, the 07 NIE thwarted the Cheney Wurmser goal. But obviously the Cheney Wurmser option, which reflects an Israeli strategic goal, has nothing to do with Bernard Fall’s COIN, much less the strategic interests of the US and the American people.

I have always believed that if the IDF had engaged in COIN since 67, if not 48, we would see an entirely different Middle East. But those who sing odes to Dr. Goldstein do not seem cut out for that kind of work. I do not see how a nation can conduct “COIN” if the collective pathos is deeply racist and, arguably, increasingly paranoid, with certain tell tale signs of incipient paranoid schizophrenia. Not good. Not good at all.

Also, for what it is worth, I am convinced that King David employed a version of COIN. In other words, King David, in this day and age, would have carried on the traditions of the US Green Berets. Ergo, the IDF does not represent….well…ask the Satmar Rabbis. They are American and you can trust them, much more than Hagee, and his evangelical followers.

Walrus

B:

"I wonder when AIPAC will start going after Petreaus. CENTCOM is now more "anti-Israel" engaged than the political side in the U.S. "


Leaked emails from Petreaus indicate that he is actually courting the Israeli lobby, probably in an effort to obtain the Presidency in 2012.

Phil Weiss extract:

" rom: Petraeus, David H GEN MIL USA USCENTCOM CCCC/CCCC
2:37

Thx, Max. (Does it help if folks know that I hosted Elie Wiesel and his
wife at our quarters last Sun night?! And that I will be the speaker at
the 65th anniversary of the liberation of the concentration camps in
mid-Apr at the Capitol Dome...)

2:45, Boot:

No don't think that's relevant because you're not being accused of being
anti-Semitic.

2:57, Petraeus:

Roger! :-)

That's military talk. The emoticon means, I'm running for President."

http://mondoweiss.net/2010/07/petraeus-fed-his-pro-israel-bona-fides-to-a-neocon-writer-including-pathetic-recitation-of-meeting-wiesel.html#more-21773

Patrick Lang

Sidney

I am not interested in "documentary proof" in some academic's accounting of events he did not participate in. I am a primary source. pl

J

Imagine what a Palestinian grandmother's answer to her grandson's question:

Grandson -- Mama, why did that Israeli soldier push you down in the gutter just because you were crossing the street, why Mama, WHY?
Grandmother -- Because he doesn't' value the lives of others. He's been taught and raised that he is the human and the rest of mankind are nothing more than cattle under his Israeli feet.


Sidney O. Smith III

Col. Lang,

My apologies. I wrote too quickly. Probably should have written something like, “Another secondary source, besides the lectures at HU of J ( mentioned above by Trent) that corroborates Col. Lang is…”

Or alternatively, maybe forget 1st paragraph. Awkward lead in, I reckon. (Plus, I don’t know what HU of J stands for.)

If I may, I would also like to take the opportunity to include the following addendum. I should have written something like, “The IDF has won nothing since 1967, with each failure greater than the one before. And this disturbing trend increasingly reveals the dark underside of Zionism, as it has evolved, and it offers proof that Zionism has less and less to do with Judaic values and more and more with a racist mindset fueled by a type of ethnic nationalism that, in turn, relies upon religious symbols.

It didn’t have to be that way but one tell tale sign is when Buber saw what was at work and said, essentially, ‘Not in my name’” Countless others have followed suit.

Buber, in essence, wanted Zionism to go the (true) COIN route, imo, or something similar."

And so on.

Many thanks,

JohnH

I have no doubt that the basic motivating force of post-Holocaust Jews is fear. But I doubt that Israelis' fear is mostly explained by Jews' historic experience. In fact, there has been a big campaign to keep the Holocaust alive, stoke fears, and keep nerves raw.

Given their 60 year experience, you would think that most Israelis would realize by now that bad things happen but very few are directly affected. More get killed in cars these days. And relatively more urban Americans get killed every year by local violence.

I remember being on a Greek island within sight of Turkey during the Turks' invasion of Cyprus. Many of the residents were very worried because their families had been driven out by the Turks 50 years earlier. They seemed to go about their business, and there was none of the rabid venom you hear by Israelis these day. The women remained in town, and it was joked that the men, who were all conscripted, went out to drink Ouzo in the woods.

When we got to a hotel at 5 am. after a crowded rescue ferry ride (thanks to the Brits=--the American embassy did nothing), we were met by a young couple who bounded into the breakfast area.

They said, "Hi, what's happening?"
We said, "Haven't you heard?"
They said, "No, we just got here."
We said, "Where are you from?"
They said, "Northern Ireland. Everything always sounds much worse than it really is."

I always think of them when I go places with "troubles." It's truly amazing to me that Israelis haven't learned to take their situation in stride, develop appropriate coping skills, and deal with their fears accordingly.

Jackie

Fear = so handy to keep the populace in check or gain consent.

What do you think GWB and RBC used to get the US population to go along with "the mess in potemia"? Condi's mushroom clouds, Saddam and WMDs, etc.

The surprising part of this for me is the number of times the Israelis fall for it. They must be a really terrorized people. Their leaders should stop it and so should ours.

Adam L Silverman

Professor Kiracofe: you definitely want to stay clear of evolutionary psych explanations for human behavior. At this stage of it's development as a field it basically an argument in search of evidence. Essentially the field argues that human behavior is the result of evolutionary psychological development that became fixed millions of years ago at the end of the Pleistocene (if I recall correctly - it's been a while since I've looked at this stuff). Evolutionary psychology has been predominantly applied to the question of why men rape with the answer "because their brains evolved that way to gaurantee as many offspring as possible" as the not surprising answer. The fact that other much more developed and legit forms of psychology, let alone criminology and (criminal) sociology have all ripped these assertions (conclusions) to shreds, the bigger problem with the theory is that it can't be tested. Since we have little to no actual evidence as to how humans lived when homo sapiens first emerged, including no idea what these early communities and societies were like or even if they were communities or societies, and no concept of early humans behavior, the whole explanation is conjecture. As it can't be tested or falsified it fails the most basic definition of a theory.

I would recommend, however, Israeli sociologist Nahman Ben Yehuda's work on both Israeli religious extremism and violence and on panic and panic based social and political behaviors. I recommended his book on Masada about a month back, but this stuff is very good too. I would also recommend Professor Hoffstader's classic "The Paranoid Style in American Politics" and Professor Altmire's work on authoritarianism. The latter is available for free on the author's University of Toronto web page. If you google him, he's a political psychologist, the link should come right up.

Adam L Silverman

Mr. Smith: I believe that HU of J stands for Hebrew University of Jerusalem.

Roy G

It is a hopeful sign to see some pragmatic realism within CENTCOM, with the Red Team recommending the engagement of Hamas and Hizbullah.

http://www.foreignpolicy.com/articles/2010/06/29/red_team?print=yes&hidecomments=yes&page=full

Zionism has endeavored to make itself indistinguishable from Judaism. Unfortunately for those involved, it has metastasized into a nationalist power tool. The 'Aliyah industry' is a good example; a religious function redefined and co-oped into a state-building mechanism. The influx of immigrants is used as a rationale for the land grab.

Obviously, there are many Jews who don't subscribe to Zionism in this form, however, they are marginalized, and forced outside of the process. However, as has been noted, the younger generations are losing their fear, and thus, represent an internal threat to the Zionist project of 'greater Israel.'

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