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29 July 2010

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Jose

Does the Obama Administration and the democratic Party majority in Congress have some nobler motive in suing Arizona than a mere search for Latino votes? Perhaps. pl

Col., respectfully no. This is just an issue to increase his poll ratings among Hispanics. Foolbama and the Democrats doe not care anyone, but themselves. The Republicans are no better.

You and your kind (both parties), all you care about is money. This city deserves a better class of criminal. And I'm gonna give it to them! - The Joker, "Batman The Dark Knight"

Paul Escobar


There was a time when Latinos in Arizona protested illegal immigration.

Courtesy of the FBI, Cesar Chavez, & Wayne State University:


The documents reproduced here were drawn from the Washington files of the FBI and have been released under the Freedom of Information Act...

FBI File: 157-33076
Sep. 1974-Jan. 1975 Roll 1,1231-1277

Activities of the United Farm Workers include:

Civil unrest following demonstration at Yuma, AZ
Incidents of violence and beating of illegal
aliens at Yuma, AZ

FBI File: Cross References Roll 2, 0484-0593

Activities of the United Farm Workers including:

UFW protests at Federal Building in Phoenix over
use of illegal aliens (Aug. 1974)


I foolishly sent Cesar Chavez an e-mail today, protesting his death.

Tyler

Jose,

What the hell are you talking about?

arbogast

In medicine, it is a horrible mistake not to follow the rules. Most nosocomial infection comes from failures to follow existing, well-known rules (such as hand-washing).

"Illegal" immigrants? If they are illegal, then they need to go home.

But, then again, who gave the Federal Reserve the right to indebt Americans for 2.5 trillion dollars without a single vote being cast anywhere?

Government? Since Ronald Reagan, government is dead. Distrust the government. Don't let the government enslave you. Etc. Etc.

Well, those who don't wish to be enslaved should not complain about illegal immigration.

William R. Cumming

The problems of selective enforcement plague the entirety of the immigration policy/issue debate. Why? There is no coherent effort even in the bureacracy to be consistent or to comply with the written words of the law.

Walrus

What is the Catholic viewpoint?

I am drawn to Catholicism by the music and ritual on so many levels as I get older and closer to death:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9tLBOnTcXMA

Patrick Lang

walrus

Try reading the "Catechism of the Catholic Church" http://www.usccb.org/catechism/text/index.shtml pl

Jake

Let's stop kidding ourselves. This is not about law. This is about politics and extremism. This is about elections.

SB 1070 was and is bad law and not only would not help fight illegal immigration but was made for one purpose only.

self-righteousness.

Realize the proponent of this legislation, State Senator Russell Pearce, was once under the employ of Sheriff Joe Arpaio and still is part of the Arpaio fan club. Pearce was injured by a Mexican gang member and so since then has push several pieces of legislation through the State. This time Pearce and that cabal and that includes the two idiot US Senators, and the Court Jester of politics J.D. Hayworth, have gone way to far.

The Governor is also playing politics because she is also not in such hot political shape and many AZ Republicans have a hard time with her.

SB 1070 is not about good law enforcement. This is not about stopping crime. This is not about protecting Americans. This is all about politics.

What the Judge did by axing provisions in the law was to protect the US Constitution and American Citizens from unwarranted searches and seizures.

"The judge put on hold provisions that would require police to check immigration status if they stop someone while enforcing other laws, allow for warrantless arrests of suspected illegal immigrants and criminalize the failure of immigrants to carry registration papers."

This included allowing the police officer based only on his intuition to hold you until you could prove you were an American Citizen. Now that might not sound like much. But what happens if you were to loose your wallet and then run into a Joe Arpaio type officer who for some reason does not like you? Yes you could not prove your an American right at that moment. So the cop can then hold you until you do.

Well gang.. that is total bull-sheet-rock in my book.

This one clause gives way to much power to any police department especially one run by Joe Arpaio and folk like him.

Arpaio keeps getting elected by his fear mongering of his constituents which are mainly seniors. Lets not mention that Good Ole Joe has cost his constituents millions in law suits. Even the insurance company has raised his deductible from $1M to $5M...

If anyone thinks the US Constitution or laws such as this would not be man-handled by the likes of Joe Arpaio and that cabal needs to be rushed to the hospital. Because your suffering from a deadly case of cranial rectal inversion and you might stop breathing at any moment.

Besides if Phoenix thinks it has a crime problem with gangs and illegals? They better take a hard look at Chicago.

As far as the Catholic Church is concerned. One must never mix religion and politics together. The Church does not believe any human is illegal and supports all human beings in their struggles being treated fairly and honorably. Just like a Church should.

The politics of God and the politics of man are on two totally different frequencies...

lina

Thank you for sharing the information about Alexandria. It helps to remind me there is still some decency left in the world.

Re Dylan Ratigan: I must advise that daily exposure to cable tv news outlets is very toxic to one's brain chemistry. It's a lot like exposing the disgestive system to a daily diet of kentucky fried chicken and hostess twinkies. An occasional lapse into these indulgences is harmless, but daily exposure will truly make you sick.

Allen Thomson


> What is the Catholic viewpoint?

I don't know that the Vatican has taken a position, but the U.S. Conference of Catholic Bishops has issued a statement on the AZ ruling:

http://www.usccb.org/comm/archives/2010/10-144.shtml

Patrick Lang

Jake

"This included allowing the police officer based only on his intuition to hold you until you could prove you were an American Citizen."

They can do that now, so, what's the point? pl

dan of steele

They can do that now, so, what's the point? pl

really? are you ok with that? Good grief, what happened to us? that is gut wrenchingly sad if it is indeed true. I thought we still has some minimal rights and could sue for silly things like false imprisonment and such.

Jake

Colonel Lang...

The point is that a police officer does not have the power you think he has. The "They can do that now, so, what's the point?" part does not exist for a local police officer. Nor does a "local PO" have the power to stop and hold you on "reasonable suspicion" that your not a US Citizen.

Currently some 22 States are considering AZ type laws but as far as I know and as of this writing no state has given its approval for such except AZ.

A Police Officer has a right to identify you and make sure you do not have any warrant for your arrest or are not commuting a crime but he does not have the right to hold you "only" because "he thinks" your not a US Citizen. That power locally just does not exist.

Note Section 2B of the AZ law requires law enforcement officers to try to check the immigration status of "anyone" they lawfully stop if they have "reasonable suspicion" the person might be an unauthorized immigrant."

This section does not exist at the federal level of law or in other states and local levels currently.

"Reasonable suspicion" is a loaded and very broad ranged phrase. Nor does the AZ statute define what reasonable suspicion is....

I will add that most POs I know follow the law and their training. But then again we do have the Sheriff Joe types who could give a hoot.

Give you one example. I have a friend who immigrated to this country some 60 years ago. He is a naturalized citizen since age 10. Served in the US Military and retired living the American dream.

Though he has been here since 1958 is educated here he still has a slight accent. Now what happens if he looses his wallet, reports it accordingly and then gets stopped in AZ for not having his seat belt on?

The cop presently can issue him a ticket, then under the undefined reasonable suspicion clause hold him until he proves he is a US Citizen.

Now you served this Country as well as your brothers in arms.

Is this what you and they served and some died for?

That is my point Colonel Lang.

Best

VietnamVet

Colonel,

The Immigration Issue is about our place in the world and jobs.

The Democrats are playing with fire by being Corporate Lackeys and at the same time courting Hispanic and Asian voters by supporting open immigration. The only question is when do Americans realize like the Russians that it is all a big lie and overthrow the Empire.

America in Color from 1939-1943 are great government color slides taken up to the year I was born. The pictures are about Whites, Blacks, poverty, jobs, farms, building Dams, and the War.

The Democrats had better quickly realize that this Nation cannot stand permanent 20% unemployment and Illegals competing for jobs with Voters. Americans are too diverse and too radical to allow the current system of Republican verses Republican-Lite to remain intact in the face of a prolonged Recession and two never ending Colonial Wars.

Allen Thomson


Speaking of Alexandria,
http://www3.alexandriava.gov/police/pdfs/stats.pdf seems to indicate a sharp spike in crime rates just in 2010. Is that right?

Jose

Tyler, states must submit to the federal government like company grade officers must submit to field grade officers. Enforcing the law is a Federal responsibility, not Arizona's. Neither party is going to enforce the law, because both sides have special interest groups lobbying and making donations for no change in status. Nobody will care about this issue after the election, so elected "new clowns" who will.

I am a "Hispanic", but support the Col. on this issue up to the point of allowing Arizona to enforce Federal laws.

Patrick Lang

Jose

The right of the federal government to impose its will on the states is limited. How limited is the subject of an ongoing dynamic process. The states are not a subordinate echelon of government. pl

Patrick Lang

Jake

You don't seem to want to have the immigration laws enforced.

My "comrades" and I do not need to be reminded by you of why we did our duty. pl

Patrick Lang

AT

Yes. Rapes are up 400% in 2010. Burglaries are up. Why do you suppose that is? pl

Allen Thomson


Re Alexandria crime: I think I misread the table through failure to understand the explanatory material.

"For each year represented, Part 1 Crime data is extracted from the Alexandria Police Department's Records Management System (RMS) and calculated from January 1st to the previous day. For example, if today is October 8th, the annual crime data in the report represents data from January 1 - October 7 for each of the five years. For example, if today is October 8th, the annual crime data in the report represents data from January 1 - October 7 for each of the five years."

So it appears that the prior year numbers are truncated to the date of the current year, presumably to facilitate comparison. In that case, 2010 doesn't look much different from the previous five years.

Laurie

Actually, the Obama administration is doing more to enforce immigration law than the previous Republican administration. More immigrants are being deported and more businesses are being audited than previously. Why must we assume some dark and cynical motivation to the immigration issue and the administration's attempts to deal with an it? The Bush administration focused on splashy "round 'em up" sweeps, which does nothing to curtail illegal border crossings but can give the impression that one is doing something. Meanwhile, the other side of the issue, and by this I mean the employers, had been ignored. If employers are discouraged from hiring illegals, immigration will slow down but like everything, it will take time. It seems that we are in an age of hysteria where everything is a crisis and we have to chuck our civil rights so the government can do something.

I support enforcement of our laws and commend the administration for doing so. If we want a country where we all carry papers proving residency status, then we need to have a conversation about that. What I most dislike about the AZ law is the implicit racial profiling. Change the wording so that all people stopped by police must show some proof of legal status and I really don't have a problem. Otherwise, it just seems like a way to legally harass brown people.

Tyler

Jake,

Stop being obtuse. Acting as if the "right" is the only one playing politics here is disingenous.

20 million brand new voters, all owing their citizenship to the Democrats, and you think that the Purple Drink Administration and its ilk is doing this out of the goodness of its heart.

Tell me, how is the kool aid over there at the DNC?

As an aside, you might want to cut down on your post length. You've got about two salient issues in there with the rest being a mishmash of misunderstood law and appeals to emotion.

Nancy K

To place all the blame on the Obama administration and to imply that it is all about the politics of this administration as some have implied on this issue is very naive.
Republicans love to bring up President Reagan as the end all and be all of presidents, however in 1977 in one of his radio addresses he stated
"It makes one wonder about the illegal alien fuss. Are great numers of our unemployed really victimes of illegal alien invasion or are these illegal tourists actually doing work our own people won't do.
As I recall both President Bush's punted on the issue as well.
Of course it is all political, Democrats want the Hispanic vote and Republicans want the business and agribusiness vote, and they love cheap labor.
No politician is really noble.

Jake

Colonel Lang...

This is not about non-enforcement of laws. Of which I agree with so please do not jump the gun and make asumptions. I am opposed to the AZ Law on Constitutional grounds only.

This is a federal question not one of State(s). I am sure you do not believe that each State should have its own foreign policy as well, now do you?

This is also about protecting American's and the US Constitution. I do ot believe that we need to be showing our papers....

For example the Arizona law also has no specified time which a law enforcement department can hold a person. That too is a question of due process.

We in this Country as you very well know are a Country of laws and the rule of law trumps all personal feelings.

This is very much a Constitutional issue. Though I do agree that we need to enforce our laws rather than create new ones that violate our civil liberties just because we are our biases.

That is the point Colonel Lang. That was also the belief of my father as well.

A Bataan survivor....

Mark Logan

My own pet theory is that Obama didn't want to do this, politically speaking. It is inconsistant with the "no drama", "no distractions" meme.

But what do you do when those PITA starry-eyed idealists walk in the door with a valid case? Tell them that it doesn't help get you re-elected and to ignore it? The Arizona law was the wrong approach, and there are some awful things in it. For instance, the part making it a crime for illegal aliens to apply for a job. What is behind this redundant infraction? Confiscation of money earned. This sets the money earned from sweat at the same status as that of drug money from illegal activity. This is abhorrent to me. Sweat is sacred. They picked those grapefruits, they get paid. Period. IMO.

I like to think that he is plotting to use this as a chance to get a comprehensive plan going. The Schumer-Graham framework approaches the issue in the right way, and is being stalled by silly political games. Seems like a chance here, if he is competent enough to use it.

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