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12 June 2010

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greg0

Israel is trying to rattle Turkey?
And what would Bin Laden say?

Lysander

Can't seem to find the older links, but I believe this is the third time the Times of London (or the Telegraph) has claimed that Saudi has given permission for an Israeli over flight. I think the purpose is to raise tensions between Saudi and Iran and maybe psyops against the Iranians. I don't believe it is true at all. Assuming the Saudi royals are motivated purely by self interest and couldn't care less about the broader Islamic world (nit saying that's the case but for the sake of argument), it still would be a very bad idea. By now they must be thinking that Iran could be the next nuclear power and they are better off starting things off on the right foot.

Also, I don't think the Saudis have total confidence Israel will succeed, especially after Lebanon, '06. And if the attack fails, they will be the ones left holding the bag.

GregB

What I find more intriguing is that the war monger propaganda mill is obviously desperate for an attack on Iran.

The drumbeat is never ending.

I will say it again. An attack on Iran will make the aftermath of the attack on Iraq look like military genius.

If Israel wants to assist Ahmadinejad in his dreams of ending the Zionist entity of Israel, this will be it.

J

Colonel,

So what are the 'originators'(i.e Neocons, Mossad, etc.) of such dribble hoping to accomplish with their same yarn being regurgitated over and over again?

shanks

This is silly. If they think this is going to raise the distrust level between Saudis and Iran, they're mistaken.

More likely, local Saudis are wont to ask whether the royalty is ever needed, and then it goes a bit wobbly from there if there is a coup over the purported "permission".

An unstable Saudi Arabia is the last thing which the US wants.

J

Colonel,

With each successive blunder after blunder (Lebanon 06, Gaza blockade, Dubai assassination, etc.), the Israeli Military/Intelligence apparatuses appear more and more Keystone in nature. Not a good thing for Israel when they're trying to portray themselves as big/bad/ugly to the Mideast neighborhood. The only thing Israel has left is its nuclear bully club, and that only goes so far.

blowback

To ensure the Israeli bombers pass unmolested, Riyadh has carried out tests to make certain its own jets are not scrambled and missile defence systems not activated. Once the Israelis are through, the kingdom’s air defences will return to full alert.

Are air defense systems fully automated these days? What has happened to the guys who press the buttons? Are the Saudi planes piloted by automatons? Are the Saudis expecting all the Israeli planes to be shot down over Iran?

I've read reports which suggest that for all the billions of dollars that the Saudis have spent on "defense" over the years, the Israelis can already fly pretty much any place they want to over Saudi Arabia. Perhaps the Pentagon/US defense companies/BAe don't want the Saudis to know what a crock of ordure they've been sold over the years.

The beaver

Why was Cheney @ the Saudi Court a month ago?
As a go-between with the Israelis (his good buddies) who want to act against Iran ....

Lord Curzon

Sir,

I agree. This has got to be the biggest wind-up of the summer!

DH

It's as if Iran doesn't have anti-aircraft capabilities and their nuclear fixin's buried deeply underground.

N M Salamon

I do not think that the Saudi Royal Family has committed a suicide pact. The Times of London is unreliable news source re: Israel and many other things.

I do not think that the USA wants to live with the possibility of major damage to any ME oil field/installation [including those of Iran], for the USA does not wish to commit economic suicide, the clear after- effect of lack in oil imports [Note, Merxico's falling production, Venezuela selling to China, and Canada only balancing export/import between westg and east].

So ther will ber lot of BS and no war.

PirateLaddie

Probably more chaff than grist, but does raise the question, just which Book are the Saudis reading from? As nominal Sunnis, they're up for taking a swipe at Shia Iran if the heavy lifting is done by others, maybe even by Israel.
As noted, nuclear Pakistan, with its large Shia population (many of Iranian ancestry) could complicate matters, but stiff necks & self-assurance are not rare commodities among a folk whose bacon has been saved by the USG in the past.

graywolf

All this hand-wringing over the possibility of an Israeli strike on Iran....
What possible GOOD - for the US or anyone - comes from a nuclear Iran?
The place is a fucking asylum - run by it's craziest inmates.

Harper

Fully concur with Col. Lang that this story is B.S. But a further observation: This is the second story of this particular disinformation bent from Rupert Murdoch's London Times in a several week period. The day before the Israeli attack on the flotilla, the Times of London reported that Israel has permanently stationed a submarine, armed with nuclear warheads on cruise missiles, in the Persian Gulf. The subs are part of an Israeli "deterrent" after Hezbollah obtained longer range rockets that can hit all population centers in Israel. The subs are also available for an Israeli strike against Iran's nuclear sites. This story about Israel and Saudi Arabia is the second in a series, courtesy of that wanna-be Lord Beaverbrook, Rupert Murdoch.

A more insidious angle? The Brits are preparing to dump Israel, since they no longer have the credibility to serve as an anchor for permanent conflict in the region. Now, the new British Great Game in the Middle East is to really press the Sunni versus Shi'ite fundamentalist conflict, within Islam. Israel lines up with the Arabs against the Persians, and a new 100 years of conflict ensue.

But the idea that Saudis are actually going to give Israeli overflight rights to start a war that will do bad, bad things to Saudi Arabia is beyond the pale, in my humble opinion.

Paul Escobar

This has the feel of a Hollywood gossip rag, trying to salvage the reputation of an actor.

Like Israel is coming off a messy divorce with Turkey, looking pretty sleazy. But credible sources say Saudi doesn't find him all that repulsive. See, things aren't that bad...

Sounds more like PR than anything else.

Walrus

I don't believe a word of it and the writing style and construction of the storyline reeks of Israel.

The "conducted tests" meme is a pathetic attempt to pad out the story that is the reverse of the truth.

"Tests" are unnecessary. Saudi Arabia will have a command communications and control structure (C3I) in place to ensure that aircraft and missiles are NOT launched without Royal permission no matter what appears in their ADIZ.

b

Pat,

you will certainly know the Saudis better than I do. But I can't believe they are that dumb. There rulers don't have to pander for the Lobby money every day so they can't be as stupid about their national interest as the U.S. Congress is.

When I read that Murdoch Times headline today I was immediately sure that it is a propaganda hoax. The very thin sourcing in the piece confirms that.

Israel can't successfully attack Iran and the U.S. will not do so now if only for economic reasons.

A few years on, things will be different.

Phil Giraldi

The Rupert Murdoch owned Times of London is a major source of Israeli disinformation. It has featured a whole series of articles of late that are intended to increase Iranian anxiety that an attack is imminent. Don't know exactly what they expect to achieve by it.

Patrick Lang

graywolf
I would agree with your point about Iran, but do we really want a nuclear war in the Middle East? pl

graywolf

"graywolf
I would agree with your point about Iran, but do we really want a nuclear war in the Middle East? pl"

Certainly not.
We have to go back to GWB to see the beginning of the abject failure of US policy toward Iran.
Now, we are in the fifth year of the failed Bush/Obama "policy" and Iran is about to become a nuclear power.
Choices?

Charles I

Graywolf, so not all reality is good. Its good to accept and plan for the unpalatable and to drastically reduce one's initial assessment of one's total agency in a given situation.

Can anybody tell us anything about the sub rosa security relationship that must surely be conducted between Israel and the al Sauds? Is there anything on record about anything the Saudis have facilitated/permitted/sat still for? Aside from the Palestinians of course, but does Israel do work for the Saudis, they're everywhere else?

Charles I

ps. Did the Saudi's make any indignant noises over the Flotilla, need to be undercut in their constituency by association with the very same pirates in contemplation of another ill advised attack? I missed all this news at the cottage.

BillWade

While thinking that Iranian air defenses are likely pretty dismal, Israeli fighters coming out of a funnel seems idiotic. Does Israel even really have nukes, all this news coming out recently about Israel selling nukes to South Africa seems to bolster the idea that they do, but is it mere propaganda?

DanM

The Times went off the rails long ago. It still makes me sad, though.

Patrick Lang

graywolf

We should be following a policy of isolating our enemies and rewarding our friends. Instead we are and have been these last ten years following a policy of isolating Israel's enemies and rewarding her friends. pl

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