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10 June 2010


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Clifford Kiracofe

1. As I have said before, the US has had in the past excellent relations with Turkey and before that the Ottoman Empire (when it was...Muslim and a "caliphate").

We did NOT go to war against the Ottomans in WWI. American naval architects and shipwrights actually rebuilt the Ottoman Navy back in the 1830s after it was shot up by Euro imperialists of that day, as I point out in my book "Dark Crusade" (London" Tauris, 2009).

2. Modern Turkey has been a friend to the US and a staunch NATO ally during the Cold War. Modern Turkey is adjusting its internal politics through Constitutional and democratic means. There has been an Islamic trend in the region for some time now. What is wrong with the Turkish people reflecting this in their voting patterns?

And what is wrong with Turkey's foreign policy reflecting its national interests in its foreign policy within a changing global balance of power?

Is Turkey supposed to be some sort of slave of the Anglo-American-Zionist combine? Like present day Egypt?

3. Neocons and other imperialist types may have their fantasies but realists need to take into consideration the changing international situation.

Back in the 1960s, Henry Kissinger among others looked ahead toward a "five power system": US, Europe, Russia, China, Japan. Since then India, Turkey, Brazil, have moved into important regional positions though with global implications which complicate "the game of nations".

But the US foreign policy elite, such as it is, is so saturated with Zionism, narcisism, hubris, and latter day pseudo-British imperialism it cannot see the world in realistic terms let alone devise a national strategy and foreign policy worthy of the name.

The Turks and Brazilians and everyone else except Israel are perceived as the wogs needing direction from Washington.

4. Just what is a realistic assessment/appreciation of the regional situation out there? Wouldn't one have to consider the increased power and prestige of contemporary Turkey as a major factor? Not to mention the role of Iran and Syria? And what about the mummy-like Egyptian body politic as a declining factor (for now)? And factors such as Russia and China?

Is it realistic to expect the wogs to continue to take direction from a culturally and economically disintegrating United States?

I don't think so...


medicine man asked: "Good Lord, this new determination to demonize Turkey from the usual propaganda organs was entirely predictable, wasn't it?"

A June 3, oped in the Turkish paper Hurriyet predicted this:
Israel may hurt Turkey

How could Israel and the Jewish lobby hit easily?

The following might happen:

- From now on you’ll read in the international press that Turkey turned its back on the West and started to take interest in issues like Iran, Hamas and Islam. There will be reports and conferences focusing on the criminal record of the AKP administration and analyzing how Erdoğan and Devutoğlu are changing the course of Turkey. No matter how much we try to persuade them that this is wrong we won’t be convincing. This campaign will be stirred by the Israeli lobby.

- There will be serious warnings about Turkey’s investment or financial relations in the sense of “signaling danger.” Even if the Israeli lobby won’t show success it will spread such an atmosphere nevertheless.

- Turkey should now expect the Armenian “genocide” resolution to pass American Congress because that’s the easiest way for the Israeli to obtain success.

- We should also expect the Israeli government to increase its activity regarding the PKK issue. It is hard to foresee how and in which area this will happen but the general belief is that Mossad will spread input in many fields.

- One other effective weapon in the hands of Israel is the power to influence Washington. The Jewish lobby has the means to take advantage of reaching institutions of the U.S. media and administration easily to spread suspicion and unease in relations between the two countries by exaggerating Ankara’s politics (like the Iranian issue) at variance with the United States.

Of course we may continue this list further but these are the things that first come to mind.

What precautions should Turkey take?

- ...

Jeff Ewing

Where exactly are we supposed to relocate Incirlik? Tel-Aviv, I suppose.


can you tell me where I can find info on the Ergenekon affair? I read a couple things, but didn't find any Mossad references.


If Turkey cannot be expelled from NATO, it would be expected that Israel and it's friends would try to convince Turkey to withdraw. What an accomplishment that would be! And how long before NATO is presented as a money drain and security threat to the US?
If the US is dragged into an even bigger war by Israel, NATO could be history. Especially if Turkey is seen as a legitimate target by some. Can't imagine old Europe wanting to go along with the young bullies stirring up trouble.


JINSA. Hmmm.....guess who gets JINSA's 'grateful nation' award this year...........Senator Kyl. I have to stand back and wonder how much U.S. Classified have left Sen. Kyl's lips and Congressional Safe into the ears and upon the hands of Mossad agents?

The Israeli firsters are supposed to award Kyl their treason award (oops, the politically correct term for their treason award is 'grateful nation award') Nov. 15th. I see 'grateful nation' as cryptology for Israel.

R Whitman

We should not forget that there is a lot of personal animosity on behalf of Erdogan of Turkey and Lula of Brazil.

If the Iranian fuel swap had been accepted by the US, these gentlemen were a shoo-in for a Nobel Peace Prize.


If these nutters go ahead with their plans, the US would lose an ally.

Take a look at this

Why would they issue a stamp for a ship?

Go here and scroll down till you read about Turkey.


Demands were made that Turkey grant the Soviets a base of seapower in the Dodecanese Islands and joint control of the Turkish Straits leading from the Black Sea into the Mediterranean....The voyage of MISSOURI to the eastern Mediterranean gave comfort to both Greece and Turkey. News media proclaimed her a symbol of U.S. interest in preserving Greek and Turkish liberty.

The US turned up in Turkey at the right time with a show of force, in the cold war 'protection' racket and the grateful nation commemorated that with a stamp.

Do that for israel, they'd probably strip the ship for parts and sell the ship.
And charge the US for the labour, prolly. :-)



Turkish daily Milliyet posted several items regarding it. It was picked up by PressTV and reported by them in their English edition.




In addition to the Turkish Daily Milliyet, the Turkish Press also reported similar.

Report: Mossad behind Ergenekon plot

Roy G

Turkey must have some strong Secret Service operations. Good thing, too, lest they pull a 'Hariri' on Erdogan:


Roy G

The Ergenekon affair is deeper than I realized. Interesting links that refer to back to JINSA, and the neocons backing the coup players, and which also sheds new light on the Sibel Edmonds affair.

SPECIAL WMR REPORT FROM ISTANBUL, TURKEY -- U.S. links to Turkish Ergenekon network revealed

The Israeli Lobby appeals before the US Congress to stop the Ergenekon trial in Turkey


Roy G,

They have good reason to have wanted the Ergenekon trial stopped, it will lead to Israeli Moles operating inside the U.S. Government, trailing all the way to Capitol Hill. The problem with the U.S. Congress is that they are blackmailable by the Israelis. Once a Member of Congress has given Israeli Mossad U.S. Classified, then they have stepped over the threshold, to which the Mossad can use that instance of 'assistance' as blackmail to further gain future access to even more U.S. Classified.

An individual that is most feared by the Israeli Mossad is an 'honest person' in the Congress who is not blackmailable.


Here's an interesting piece that underscores Vice President Biden apparent 'dual loyalties'. Remember that Biden is just a heartbeat away from the office of the Presidency.

Joe Biden: In Israel's Service Poster Boy for "Dual Loyalties"


Obama's Timidity and Deaths at Sea What Now?


The Turks are working a battle from two sides, the Israeli 'overt' external threat, and the Israeli 'covert' Ergenekon internal network of moles who could institute an 'attack against Turkey from within'. Which makes for dangerous times for Turkey.


I hope the Turks are on a hunt to find the threat within. Firing squad or hanging for the traitors? I wish someone here was hunting the moles.

Medicine Man

They didn't put LSD in the water cooler at the American Enterprise Institute. The institute's paymasters just coughed quietly, pointed at David Frum, and reminded the worker bees what happens when you don't push the chosen narrative enthusiastically enough. I'm sure that's all it took.

Charles I

How exactly would they go about kicking a state out of NATO?

Abuse them until they turn away. No face, no options, frutitless demands Nato help Palestians Turks die for.

In a completely unrelated development

'Turkey agrees to plans for Arab 'free trade zone'
Turkey has agreed to set up a free trade zone with three of its Arab neighbours, Syria, Lebanon and Jordan."



Colonel, Phil,

Take a look at this one:

Saudi Arabia gives Israel clear skies to attack Iranian nuclear sites

Now let's retro-history back a few months, the Neocon press 'said' that Saudi was on the same page as Israel regarding an Iran strike, and it turns out it wasn't so.

Is this deja vu all over again? Or did the Israeli Mossad maggot Dagan really meet with Saudi Intel to 'discuss/get assurances' regarding an Iranian air strike?

"It was also reported that Meir Dagan, the head of Mossad, met Saudi intelligence officials last year to gain assurances that Riyadh would turn a blind eye to Israeli jets violating Saudi airspace during the bombing run. Both governments have denied the reports. "


@ Medicine Man | 11 June 2010 at 10:16 PM

I stand corrected - you're quite right that's all it would take. :-)


Guess that Obama and State were getting too much heat from AIPAC and the Israeli lobby:

State Dept: US No Longer Backing International Probe of Aid Ship Attack US Privately Agrees to Back Israeli Probe Exclusively

So much for Obama and his administration showing any backbone in standing up for a 19 year old unarmed American citizen who was murdered by Israel.

Adam L. Silverman

For excellent take downs of Professor Hanson I recommend the following three pieces by LTC Bateman, who actually knows something about things like war in Antiquity!

Bud Wiser

Anyone who is dumb enough to think Obumma is anti-Israel, should see a headshrinker! Rahm Emanuel and the Jew Goons are pulling Obumma's strings, and the whole thing is a circus. Wake up sheeple and smell the stinking Zionist coffee. Pastor Jeremiah Wright knows what is going on, but had to apologize or something ugly was going to happen!


As a secular Turk, I say I HOPE so. I also hope that Incirlik is closed as well. This is the only thing we Turks agree upon 100%...Please kick us out of NATO, close Incirlik and establish your military base in Tel Aviv. It seems like neoconservatives will make the dream of Turks come true. Long live neocons...hallelujah!

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