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05 June 2010

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RAISER William

GREAT post. Wish more had equal courage.

Green Zone Cafe

Very good. It's a tragedy that the Jewish spirit of social justice and freedom that Labor Zionism had is being overwhelmed by immigrants from Russia bred to authoritarianism and those from Brooklyn or Morocco with racial grievances from the home country.

The other thing about the piece is how it could be applied to the USA - from the manufactured "two minutes hate" every week of the right wing media against some judge, academic, politician, or media figure, to the Texas Board of Education's ideological guidelines, to the creeping police state being built.

Is it a global trend, mindset, or playbook?

BillWade

I called Congresswoman Carol Shea-Porter yesterday to complain about the US's tepid response to the murder of a 19 year old citizen and the blinding (one eye) of another young citizen.

Years ago at the time of 9/11 I had the acquaintance of a young kid, about 20, born and raised in a very wealthy town not far from where in live in NH. He's of Iraqi descent I believe and his friends were typical American kids that you'd find just about anywhere except they all had plenty of money. His life went from normal to abnormal, I think his friends stuck by him but he told me he was feeling like people were noticing him in ways that he wasn't used to. I doubt he ever became radicalized but I got the feeling he was becoming quite angry. Now we have a 19 year old American of Turkish descent shot 4 times in the head and once again to the body. He too was probably angry and wanted to do something and wound up deciding to be a humanitarian. And Biden says, "so what?" We are now sending a message to all American youth of Muslim descent that it's ok to kill them as well as their kin in the Middle East, this is not good.

I post comments here and on a few other web sites using my real name. I can understand why others don't do that, there are consequences. One site was hacked into and because I had stupidly used my eBay email address on that site my eBay account was tampered with to the point I was forced to change my "seller's" name. Someone(s) was trying to ruin my way of making a living.

I agree with the Colonel, it's long past time to "cowboy up" but how do we do it? Hardly anyone I know in real life has heard about the USS Liberty, I'd like to see a movie made about it. The odds of that happening are about zero though.

Brad Ruble

I see in this echos of the O.J. Simpson case. Sure there were Negro's who fought with Confererate forces but there were also a lot of Negros who were lynched.
Jim Crow was real. A lot of white people felt an historic responsibliity for what had happened and wanted to atone.
In the O.J. case came a reckoning. Did we think he was guilty because he was black and we were racist? Were we picking on him because he was Black, or did we think him guilty because he had cut off his wife's head. When you didn't own slaves or lynch people guilt only goes so far. It gave many of us the opportunity to reflect.
Of course I'm a racist, I will choose my side every time and yet still hope I have the courage to oppose injustice. But I didn't want him in jail because he was black and his wife was white.
The death camps were real,my Dad said so. The history of antisemitism and pogroms is true,but my kids didn't do it.
Calling me antisemitic is like saying I'm picking on you cause your Black. Sorry boy's but those day's are gone.

Fnord

I think one element that is overlooked too much is the shere criminal element of the Israeli state. With the degree of corruption unearthed by the law, one must assume that there also follows ties to organized crime. And as all know, war is good for business in that sector. How much of Israeli decision making is short-term profit based?

WILL

we are blessed to have people that speak the obvious & defy the Israeli-Firsters at great risk to themselves. they cover the whole political spectrum. from the Col. to Pat Buchanan. From the deceased Rachel Corrie to the gadfly Dennis Kucinich. Even to the octogenarian Helen Thomas.

It was a seminal event when Professors Walt & Mearsheimer got their article out on the Lobby even though it had to be published in London. It got a boost when the Jewish historian Tony Judt gave it a favorable review.

But when the strategic think tank elites such as Anthony Cordesman finally start bluntly to tell the truth, then we are finally getting somewhere!!!!!!!!

let me repeat this link b/c of its importance!

Israel As Strategic Liability By Anthony Cordesman

"

blowback

Sorry, but perhaps it is already too late.

What most source suggest Pastor Martin Niemoller said first back in 1945.

First they came for the communists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a communist;
Then they came for the socialists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a socialist;
Then they came for the trade unionists, and I did not speak out - because I was not a trade unionist;
Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out - because I was not a Jew;
Then they came for me - and there was no one left to speak out for me.

What he said to Congress in October, 1968:

When Hitler attacked the Jews I was not a Jew, therefore I was not concerned.
And when Hitler attacked the Catholics,
I was not a Catholic, and therefore, I was not concerned.

And when Hitler attacked the unions and the industrialists,
I was not a member of the unions and I was not concerned.

Then Hitler attacked me and the Protestant church -- and there was nobody left to be concerned.

The first one makes sense because the order of the targets is correct except it omits the disabled and homosexuals. The second one does not! "The Industrialists"?????

BTW, Pastor Dietrich Bonhoeffer was murdered by the Nazis in Flossenbürg concentration camp on April 9, 1945.

graywolf

Interesting...
N. Korea torpedo'ed a S. Korean ship, and not a peep
Some people OBSESSED with Israel?

Harper

Since the beginning of the year, top Pentagon officials, including some very competent CENTCOM officers, have been not-so quietly telling anyone willing to listen that the behavior of Israel and the U.S. close association with Israel has become a serious national security problem in the entire Arab and Muslim world. A top CENTCOM officer was sent to Washington in February or March, to deliver a first-hand account of his discussions with the top military people and top ministers in the CENTCOM countries, who say that the U.S. failure to solve the Israel-Palestine conflict has caused a severe loss of credibility for the United States overall, and that this is directly jeopardizing the security of American military personnel throughout the area. This direct intervention by the U.S. military is an important factor, regardless of whether or not President Obama and his inner circle of advisors are at this moment prepared to act on that warning.

The Israeli premeditated assault on the aid flotilla to Gaza has further intensified that reality. The CSIS short paper by Tony Cordesman just exemplified the growing assessment within the "mainstream" Washington establishment about Israel now becoming a liability, bordering on an albatross for the United States.

Do not count on President Obama responding to this reality. With the likes of Rahm Emanuel and Dennis Ross at the White House/NSC, and with other Presidential advisors like Axelrod and Jarrett totally fixated on the 2012 reelection campaign, they will do nothing potent. Look for them to even dodge the obvious responsibility to fully investigate the execution-style murder of a Turkish-American citizen on board the lead flotilla ship. Counterpose that anticipated White House inaction to the response when Klinghoffer was killed aboard the Achille Lauro in 1985. Not only did the FBI immmediately launch an investigation. The U.S. Air Force intercepted the plane carrying the hijackers, and forced it to land in Italy and arrested the terrorists. Do you expect any such parallel action by Obama Administration towareds the Israeli commandos who executed an unarmed American citizen?

Regardless of what I expect to be a totally cowardly response by President Obama and his Administration, there is a sea change underway among the U.S. institutions and the American public at large. Israel has lost the control over the narrative, and they stubbornly refuse to see it. This is the making of a classic tragedy, which is always caused by a people or a leadership's failure to see that they are self-destructing as the result of the false axioms underlying their policy decisions.

The best thing that Israelis could do, to avoid that tragic outcome, is to dump/scapegoat Netanyahu, install a Labor government (despite Barak's own blood-stained hands) and go immediately for the two-state solution that everyone knows has been on the table since Bill Clinton's final efforts at Taba just before he left office. To facilitate a Hamas/Fatah reconciliation, Israel should simultaneously release Marwan Barghouti from jail. Give Abu Mazen the keys to his palace in the Gulf, and let the Palestinians determine their own leadership. Put Hamas to the ultimate test. Khaled Mashal gave a credible performance in his recent interview with Charlie Rose, so let's see what happens when the promises he made on that show are put to the test of reality.

Do I think there is enough sanity among the Israeli leadership and population to take these steps? Probably not. Nevertheless, they should be given the option to step back from the brink of national suicide.

A very well informed American retired diplomat recently described the flotilla assault as the Israeli equivalent of the Sheriff Bull Connor killing of the three civil rights workers in Mississippi in the mid-60s. The killings of Goodman, Cheney and Schwerner fundamentally shifted the dynamic, even if the consequences were not seen instantly.

Jonathan

Interesting post on Project Syndicate by Fania Oz-Salzberger; interesting not so much for its analysis/position but interesting as to who posted it and where,

Fania Oz-Salzberger is Professor at Haifa and Monash Universities and the 2009/10 Laurance S. Rockefeller Visiting Professor for Distinguished Teaching at Princeton University’s Center for Human Values.

http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/ozsalzberger5/English

R Whitman

Green Zone Cafe:

As a resident of Texas I was dismayed by the actions of the State Board of Education.

An inportant factor not mentioned in the MSM is that 60+% of the schoolchildren in Texas public schools are Mexican-American, Mexican(illegal) or black. These kids will probably look at any history lessons as "dead white guy stuff" and ignore it.

Patrick Lang

graywolf

I guess the North Korean lobby is more effective than AIPAC. pl

graywolf

I suspect that the N. Korean lobby and the Iranian lobby are one and the same.
They seem to be achieving the same, succesfull, results

BillWade

Here's somebodies speaking out, it's pretty disgusting:

http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/06/israel-derangement-syndrome-iii.html

The Twisted Genius

graywolf,

You're right. there should be much more equivalency in our policies towards North Korea and Israel.

GulfCoastLaddie

Col Lang wrote:

'I guess the North Korean lobby is more effective than AIPAC.'

Too funny. I haven't laughed that hard in a long time.

WILL

the S Koreans have voted on how they feel about the torpedo incident as well as the hardline policy toward the north.

they seem to have preferred the sunshine policy. the koreans, who see themselves as a unique people, have a psychology unlike any other people!

Castellio

What do you want to say about it, graywolf?

b

@greywolf

Defending the indefensible: a how-to guide

20. We are the victims of a double-standard. Other states do the same things (or worse) and nobody complains about them. What we did was therefore permissible.

BillWade

Greywolf, There's not a lot to discuss about North Korea amongst this group, most likely a lot of them have either planned or participated in exercises that may eventually have to be carried out against North Korea. Have you ever lost any sleep considering North Korea, I sure have. And, it's not because we're tossing and turning, it's because we are up 24/7.

MRW.

Well, Andrew Sullivan came out swinging with a great piece yesterday called "Israel Derangement Syndrome."
http://andrewsullivan.theatlantic.com/the_daily_dish/2010/06/israel-derangement-syndrome.html

It's four paragraphs long. Here are the first one and last ones:

"To read Charles Krauthammer today is to enter a twilight zone of an alternate reality. A country permanently occupying and colonizing a neighboring region, and treating its original inhabitants as dangerous interlopers, is the victim. An elite commando unit attacking a ship carrying toys and wheelchairs in the hours before dawn are those we should feel pity for. A country with 150 nuclear warheads and the strongest military in its region, the victor in every conventional war it has always fought, is somehow also always fighting for its very existence. A country backed by the sole superpower, supplied with aid by huge majorities in the US Congress, is facing extinction. Self-defense requires not civilly disabling and inspecting the cargo of an unarmed ship but raiding it at dawn and killing nine and injuring dozens. Basic human revulsion at a military that can kill over a thousand people - including scores of women and children in a trapped, impoverished enclave - can only be a function of anti-Semitism. A territory that is being systematically populated with Israelis in illegal settlements in contravention of the Geneva Conventions is merely a "buffer zone". You need to colonize buffer zones?"

And the last:

"Something has been wrong here for a very long time, and now it is inescapable. Until the discourse is rescued from the victims of Israel Derangement Syndrome, Israel and America will slowly be drawn into wars they cannot ultimately win, lose every other ally they ever had, and embolden and fortify the very Islamist forces we are seeking to defuse and defeat."

As for those "Islamist forces," maybe they could start with how that came into being in the first place. We spent less time determining who did 911 than the Times Square Fruitcake. The perps were wrapped up and packaged before I'd finished lunch on Sept 11, 2001, my time.

Sidney O. Smith III

To take a moral stand, you really have to do so under your own name, imo. Phil Weiss is not operating under a pseudonym and he has paid a tremendous price. He sacrificed a very successful career to take a stand. And history is going to remember him for it.

As another example, I don’t think Judge Frank Johnson of Alabama issued his opinions under a pseudonym.

Taking a moral stand means nothing unless you are willing to sacrifice for it. Civilian, military…makes no difference. Both have people who can take a stand, both have people who sell out or take the easy way out for job security and comfortable pensions.

optimax

Our mother died May 25, at the age of 85. When Bush or Cheney appeared on tv she would yell at the set, "Shut up." She intuitively understood their regime was destroying America-- a country that made it through the Depression and WWII to become the greatest country in the world. All her parent's generation and her generation had suffered through and fought for was being dismantled and sold as scrap to the highest bidder. I'm glad she won't be here to see our countries further ruination. My hope is she is with a loving God and is reunited with the love of her life. She was widowed young and with a sense of love and duty and strength I can only admire with awe and appreciation, she raised two young sons she said see was always proud of.

God bless her sweet, loving soul.

optimax

Neil Richardson

"BTW, Pastor Dietrich Bonhoeffer was murdered by the Nazis in Flossenbürg concentration camp on April 9, 1945.
Posted by: blowback | 05 June 2010 at 10:08 AM"

As you know he did speak out as well as actively fight against what he saw as the worst evil of his time. Bonhoeffer did have an opportunity to stay out of Nazi Germany before 1940 as he was offered a teaching position at Union Theological Seminary by Niebuhr. Yet he chose to go back to fight Hitler. He was part of the Canaris group (Oster, Donanyi) in German resistance and paid the ultimate price.

J

Report: Autopsy shows Gaza activists were shot a total of 30 times - Haaretz Daily Newspaper | Israel News

"The autopsy results showed that a 60-year-old man, Ibrahim Bilgen, was shot four times in the temple, chest, hip and back, the Guardian said.

A 19-year-old, named as Fulkan Dogan, who also has U.S. citizenship, as shot five times from less than 45 cm away, in the face, the back of the head, twice in the leg and once in the back, it said.

Two other men were shot four times. Five of those killed were shot either in the back of the head or in the back, the Guardian quoted Buyuk as saying. "

Shots in the back of the head, and the temple areas, shots in the back.....hmmm.....sure doesn't sound like the flotilla victims were acting aggressive towards the IDF maggots, but were behaving defensive as in running away from the IDF maggots.

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