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13 May 2010


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Nancy K

The New Yorker has an excellent article on Israel First Haim Saban and his influence on the Democratic politicians.
My husband and I are both Democrats and my husband has dual citizenship, however we were appalled with this article.
having said this I would imagine that the Republican party is also deeply influenced by the Israel lobby, as evidenced by Sarah Palin always wearing the star of David.
Perhaps so much pressure is being exerted by Israel because I do not believe the majority of Jews in the US believe in Zionism or what it has come to stand for.

Phil Giraldi

The Israelis are their own worst enemies as they continue to try to sell the same snake oil to an increasingly skeptical public. If you cruise the comments even on sites like Huffington that are heavily moderated to keep out anti-Israeli commentary you will find that few people are buying into the nonsense any more. Someone should tell congress.

I posted an article on antiwar today that some readers of Colonel Lang's site might find interesting.



What about that "suspected Israeli operative" who tried to get Rep. Jane Harman (D-Calif.) quash an espionage prosecution into AIPAC, and Haim Saban's involvement?

When I read that he launched the Saban Center for Middle East Policy with a $13 million grant, giving a Democratic platform to people like Martin Indyk, I had to think of Mr. Langs elaborations on 'how to take over a think tank'.

I have visited the Dachau concentration camp memorial site, and I found it very moving, sobering and educational.

It is one thing to show these sites, and another to make hay of it by manipulating visitors in an effort to get them to weep, to connect physically and emotionally with what they have just seen, and not merely intellectually. It's to generate an 'experience', not just an observation. Such tours using entertainers (in German there is the more apt word 'Animateur') is obviously part of Israeli efforts to rouse Zionist spirit, and to drive home, with a sledgehammer, the assertion that Jews can only be safe from more such acts if there is Israel.

Dachau, Auschwitz and the holocaust have very little to do with what Israel is nowadays doing in Jerusalem, Gaza or the West Bank other than serving abstractly as justifications for plain ethnic nationalism. Norman Finkelstein's point on Israeli exploitation of the holocaust for their current policies comes to mind. Now Finkelstein is obviously another self-hating Jew (*sarcasm*).

Cloned Poster

Interesting that the Irish have not got nuclear weapons from the Brits




The "get up and cry" strategy backfires spectacularly when a young woman trues it on Dr. Norman Finkelstein.

It seems strange as a narrative device though. Wasn't one of the big things that earned Israel respect the idea that they had turned former powerlessness into strength? The justification of Israel as a safe haven for the Jews of the world rather depends on that narrative thread. Given that the big challenge Israel faces now is demographic, and the only fix they really have available is emigration, it seems odd to try and portray yourself as a state one Iranian nuke away from a second holocaust.


Have you ever read the Rosenberg story about being at a service at the synogue with C. Krauthammer in attendence? I'm not sure what the rabbi said but Krauthammer started yelling at the rabbi. That must have been really special!

n m salamon

Second holocaust could only arise if, and only if, WWIII is started and the world's population [not the elites] come to the conclusion that the cause is ZIONIST government of Israel.

I think that anti-semetism is dead for all intents and purposes, except in the eyes of the varius Defamation organizations of mostly OECD countries - though there is rise of dislike of the Zionist Government of Israel for its vqrious human right transgressions and it WAR starting measures/

different clue

Many threads ago someone referrenced a thought-to-be-dead professor named Emmanuel Wallerstein. He may have been thinking of the still-living professor Immanuel Wallerstein at SUNY Binghamton. In addition to his serious academic work, Immanuel Wallerstein also writes short monthly vignettes of political observation, called "commentaries"; under the auspices of SUNY Binghamton's Fernand Braudel Center.

One of his more recent commentaries was titled "Israel writes a suicide note". It was about along this same theme...that at some point the Israeli leader-thinkers stopped thinking of themselves as "plucky little Israel" and started thinking of themselves as near-helpless world-victims just a coin-toss away from The Last Holocaust.

(The reason I can't offer a link is that I let the wrong co-worker report me for using the company computers after work. So I am using the sad little computers at the public library, which don't have that easy link-finding/offering capability. Shame on me for letting that happen).

I suspect that the state of American Zionism mirrors the state of Israeli Zionism for the same reasons...the invasion and takeover of the General (liberal) and Labor Zionist legacy movements/organizations by the Jabotinsky Revisionist (Fascist) Zionist faction operatives. AIPAC is a strictly Likudist organization, for example.
General and Labor Zionist nostalgiasts hope to bring back happier times by shrinking Zionism to borders-of-67 Lesser Israel dimensions. The J Streeters hope to do this, for example; but they have gotten started 30 years late. A growing number of American Jews suspect that Likudism is the only Zionism there is anymore; and are losing interest in the whole concept. Richard Ben Cramer wrote a sort of pre-mortem book about this called How Israel Lost.

(By the way, I myself think that future Republican presidential nominee Sarah Palin wears the Star of David for Darby Rapture reasons. As a Rapturanian Armaggedonite; she supports the total concentrating of every last Jew on earth into Israel so they can be incinerated in a World Nuclear War which will pave the way for Christ's Thousand Year Kingdom. If I misunderstand the goals and beliefs of Darby Rapture Armaggedonism; I trust someone will let me know).


Coincidences always stupefy me.

On the day you posted this, I received the following message from my Son in Kracow via Facebook:

"did i ever have relatives there? i wont put photos on FB but i have them. i went there today and saw some super orthodox jews on our tour that saw the photo of they're mother that lived, then saw a photo of they're brother that they lost touch with, the lady tour guide explained that he entered on the date written on the mugshot and the other date written below (1 month after) was the date he went into the gas chamber. lots of crying, serious shit. we saw the lot. a room full of tonnes of human hair shaved before they were burnt, and the rolls of textiles made from them. a mound of shoes in the millions stripped off them before they were burnt. a pile of glasses and other separated belongings three or four metres high each, stripped before they were burnt. we went inside the gas chambers, we saw the lot. the tour of the complex went for 4 hours. we saw everything, most of it untouched. I have seen shit you cant imagine. period. the only reason Auschwitz is so famous is it was not a death-only camp so there were survivors. the other 3 death-only camps had no survivors. also Auschwitz was the only camp to use tattooed numbers, because it got too expensive to keep photographing them. after 1942 they stopped all that and just sent the jews straight to the gas chamber with no record. In spring 1942 for 52 days they sent 500,000 Hungarian jews straight to the gas chambers in Auschwitz (the biggest ever). they crammed 700 in at a time promising 'disinfection'. they used 'cyclone b' (liquid hydrogen cyanide) pre-absorbed into absorbent pellets that they dropped into the cells. the pellets then released the agent into atmosphere when heated to body temperature. the first tests took 24 hours and only 1/3 were dead due to suffocation. they put more in and 24 hours later all were dead. they learned from this and refined the process to take 2-3 minutes. they left them for 1/2 hour to make sure. the bodies then took 3 days to be burned with their crematorium infrastructure, so they started open pits to burn the bodies faster (which we saw). 1.5 million people gassed in Auchwitz only, across the 3 camps. we saw all. "

This morning, after mentioning this to my mother, I discovered that Four of my great uncles and aunts were murdered there, something my dear departed Father never mentioned to any of his children.

This does not change my opinion of the bestiality of Israelis towards Palestinians.


different clue,
I think you're getting the Darby Rapture Armaggedonism just about right. They support Israel (a) to hasten the second coming of Jesus Christ (i.e. they try to hurry up God), (b) Jews are an indispensable ingredient to their Armageddon cocktail, and because (c) they read the bible literally they (d) fear God will be mightily mad with them if they defy His commands in the scripture, after all the bible says in Genesis 12:3

And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee; and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

One has to keep in mind, that apparently for an Armageddonite it is clear that, when God is real irate about America, He crushes cities that have gay parades with hurricanes or lets aircraft be flown into the WTC towers because of abortion and separation of church and state.

That's what underlying Michelle Bachmann saying something like this:

I am convinced in my heart and in my mind that if the United States fails to stand with Israel, that is the end of the United States . . . [W]e have to show that we are inextricably entwined, that as a nation we have been blessed because of our relationship with Israel, and if we reject Israel, then there is a curse that comes into play. And my husband and I are both Christians, and we believe very strongly the verse from Genesis [Genesis 12:3], we believe very strongly that nations also receive blessings as they bless Israel.
A brief summary on Premillenial Dispensationalism: Prophecy and the End-Times. And, of course, Mr. Kiracofe's excellent book Dark Crusade is a great primer.


Different Clue,

Isn't Rev. Hagee also part of that Christian Zionism that basically espouses the 'right of return' of all Jews to Israel for 'Rapturanian Armaggedonite reasons' as well?

With friends like Hagee and Palin and the Christian Zionists/Rapturanian Armaggedonites who stand by the Zionist State of Israel, does Zionist Israel need anymore enemies? Are Palin and Hagee just a tiny example of the 'danger to Jews everywhere' that the Rabbis of Neturei Karta have been warning about regarding as 'long as the Zionist State Of Israel exists'?


Here is an interesting read that the Zionists have been trying to keep under wraps and the world kept ignorant on --

The Rabbis Speak Out - The 130 Year Record of Religious Jewish Opposition to Zionism
Clifford Kiracofe

Clearly there is need for some comprehensive and technical analysis of the Zionist project, its current condition, trends, and implications for US and international security.

From the historical point of view, there seem to be three interrelated and interacting dimensions each needing analysis:

1. International Zionism as a political movement
2. the State of Israel
3. the Diaspora.

The first would examine the Jewish Agency past and present and its relationship to the second and third dimension.

The second would examine the internal and external policies of the state of Israel.

The third would examine the manipulation and management of the Diaspora (Dispersion) by the first and the second.

What is described in the article cited is Diaspora management, in this case, targeting Jewish youth from the Diaspora.

Within this analysis, we can situate, for example, key influential networks at various levels from that of banking mogul, media mogul and so on down to the level of working journalist and academic to include "philanthropic" organizations and "pro-Israel" organizations.

Phil Giraldi's piece noted above is on target for what is needed with respect to the influential networks angle at the level of academics etc. The New Yorker piece on Saban and the New York Magazine piece on Kovner are useful at the banking and media mogul levels.

I quite agree with David Habakkuk's postings with respect to looking at the "pro-Israel" issue in the UK and then examining how the interface works with the US particularly in policy circles. Thus, we would examine the Neocons etal and their friends in the UK as well as other networks.

I do note that Ha'aretz has usefully pointed out that one of PM Cameron's closest advisors, Mr. Gove, is a hardline "Israel first" type. And that fellow Hague looks to be pretty well enmeshed (enmired) in the pro-Israel camp also.

Given the very tight Anglo-American Zionist nexus (the real "special relationship" one might say), one does raise an eyebrow at remarks by Hague per Iran. Are we synchronizing some US-British move against Iran cloaked, naturlich, in a NATO garb??? Mais oui? Mais non?

At any rate, more close analysis of International Zionism and the state of Israel is needed in order to form a better understanding of present realities and potential future situations and developments.

Sean McBride

Messianic ethnic xenophobia: a state of permanent apocalyptic hysteria about the threat from ethnic outsiders.

Sean McBride

Clifford Kiracofe: have you looked into using Semantic Web methods to data mine, graph and analyze the Israel lobby from a global perspective? The technique can be used to get a precise handle on any political or social movement or structure. The data is out there, in abundance -- the challenge is to organize it in an optimal way for computational inferencing.

Sean McBride

A few observations about messianic ethnic cults in general:

1. They feed on apocalyptic tension and conflict with ethnic outsiders, and the leaders of such cults deliberately provoke and stoke it. Tension and conflict help maintain the solidarity, cohesiveness, morale and sense of purpose of the cult.

2. The chief objective of such cults is to promote their competitive advantage vis-a-vis cult outsiders in the competition for territory, resources, wealth, power, etc.. They are fundamentally aggressive (even predatory) in nature, although they often portray themselves as victims of aggression. They are masters of head games, of turning the truth upside down and inside out.

3. Members of such cults advance their personal self-interest by promoting the interests of the cult. Most tribalistic enterprises based on religious mythologies leverage strength in coordinated numbers, powered by strong emotion about a divine mission.

4. Messianic ethnic cults tend to polarize the world between good and evil -- between the holy cult and the demonized other -- everyone outside the cult.

5. Messianic ethnic cultists are easily able to rationalize any activity, no matter how criminal, against cult outsiders.


Therein lies the great conundrum of modern day Israel.

The narrative doesn't make much sense. The nation is often presented as both a tiny nation surrounded on all sides by enemies that is one loony dictator away from total obliteration yet so powerful that they can constantly meet any threat and even preempt those threats with their military superiority.

No wonder politicians there don't know what they are doing.

Clifford Kiracofe

Sean McBride

Thanks for the suggestion on research method. This type of computer research is beyond my primitive Googling ability although I have looked into this topic of Zionism here and there over some 40 years now.

Perhaps I can suggest it to a computer savvy student in the next several years before I retire completely. As I am semi-retired, and fully engaged in classroom teaching, I am not undertaking major research projects at this time. My motorcycles, garden, and fishing are higher priorities for me now. Perhaps down the road I will have more to say but for the moment my book Dark Crusade (London: IB Tauris, 2009) must suffice.

The younger generation will have to learn how to understand and to deal with the nightmare into which their country, this Republic, has fallen. Things are rather far gone...

different clue

If I am understanding Darby Armaggedonism mostly correctly, then I am led to a further question.

I have read off and on about how a highly motivated movement of Christian Evangelicals (I would assume Protestant), have established a strong presence within the Air Force Academy near Colorado Springs. I further understand that they are Dominionists rather than Rapturists. Still...would they be close enough to the Rapturists in belief in the God-prophesied necessity of a total nuclear war incineration of Israel that we should be concerned about the Dominionist Movement gaining control over some of our airborne H-bombs? In other words, do we face the real-world danger of Dominionists within the Air Force Academy slowly and carefully placing one or more Jack D. Rippers in one or more key places for when the time is right?

Am I wearing the tinfoil or is the tinfoil wearing me?


different clue,
I presume you'd like to read about Mikey Weinstein, an Air Force Academy graduate, and the Military Religious Freedom Foundation.

And here is a backgrounder on the Air Force Academy scandal.

And no, I don't think you're wearing a tinfoil hat. The thought of a rapture ready launch control officer in a missile silo sends a chill down my spine as well.



Take a look at this one -- declassified GAO report exposes uranium 'diversions' to Israel.

Declassified GAO Report Exposes Fatally Flawed Israel Investigations

I am not sure there is a lot to admire.

My aunt told me some stories about what my late father went through as a 13 year old boy when they fled from East Prussia over the frozen Haff and when they were eventually overrun by Soviet troops. Aunty was younger. He never spoke about it, but she still gets furious. Mention Polish and that lovely old lady gets irate. My mother, grown up in bomb shelters, still gets tense when she sees aircraft flying low, and she is terrified of fire. I recall some stories from another aunt about one of the 1000 bomber raids on Cologne, involving molten streets.

As a German, after all Nazi Germany did, you're in a poor position to complain. That hasn't so much to do with dignity, but IMO with finding solace in forgetting, because there can't be and never will be retribution or compensation.

The Brits went through a lot as well, but they won. Same for the French. Victory has a way of restoring dignity it seems.

Israel didn't have such a time of reckoning, neither did they have a victory in WW-II. Perpetually victims, they never were forced to confront their demons. Maintaining the victim narrative beyond what happened in WW-II allows to not have to deal with messy moral questions related to current conduct.

David Habakkuk

A piece by Peter Beinart in the current edition of the New York Review of Books, entitled 'The Failure of the American Jewish Establishment', is well worth reading. He starts by noting how, in 2003, several prominent Jewish philanthropists hired the Republican pollster Frank Luntz to explain why American Jewish college students were not more vigorously rebutting campus criticism of Israel.

What Lunz discovered, Beinart notes, and what is also apparent in other studies, was that these younger Jews were very far from sharing the unquestioning identification with Israel of their elders. And he points to an increasing polarisation:

Among American Jews today, there are a great many Zionists, especially in the Orthodox world, people deeply devoted to the State of Israel. And there are a great many liberals, especially in the secular Jewish world, people deeply devoted to human rights for all people, Palestinians included. But the two groups are increasingly distinct. Particularly in the younger generations, fewer and fewer American Jewish liberals are Zionists; fewer and fewer American Jewish Zionists are liberal. One reason is that the leading institutions of American Jewry have refused to foster -- indeed, have actively opposed -- a Zionism that challenges Israel’s behavior in the West Bank and Gaza Strip and toward its own Arab citizens. For several decades, the Jewish establishment has asked American Jews to check their liberalism at Zionism’s door, and now, to their horror, they are finding that many young Jews have checked their Zionism instead.

Morally, American Zionism is in a downward spiral. If the leaders of groups like AIPAC and the Conference of Presidents of Major American Jewish Organizations do not change course, they will wake up one day to find a younger, Orthodox-dominated, Zionist leadership whose naked hostility to Arabs and Palestinians scares even them, and a mass of secular American Jews who range from apathetic to appalled. Saving liberal Zionism in the United States—so that American Jews can help save liberal Zionism in Israel—is the great American Jewish challenge of our age. And it starts where Luntz’s students wanted it to start: by talking frankly about Israel’s current government, by no longer averting our eyes.

(See http://www.nybooks.com/articles/archives/2010/jun/10/failure-american-jewish-establishment/?pagination=false.)

A reservation I have about the article is that I do not think that Beinart is facing up to the fact that the viability of any kind of 'liberal Zionism' depended upon the faith in the possibility of a two-state solution, and that to continue to think this possible requires one to believe six impossible things before breakfast -- to echo Lewis Carroll.

A consequence of this, it seems to me, is that Beinart is not facing up to the full bitterness of the choice which faces many Jews. But everything he says reinforces what has long been my suspicion: that when it becomes clear that the choice cannot be avoided, very many Jews, in the United States as in Britain, will prefer to check their Zionism at the door, rather than their liberalism.

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