« Israeli intelligence, our constant companion - Jeff Klein | Main | Typebad screwup »

25 March 2010

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

ServingPatriot

Well COL, let's hope you're right about this.

One wonders what kind of temper tantrum Bibi and the Likudniks will throw now?

Some more "lawn mowing" in Damascus or Beirut?

SP

Clifford Kiracofe

Interesting take on Bibi's visit.

The relationship of the Fundamentalist "Settlers Movement" (Gush Emunim as the spearhead) to Israeli political parties is of course significant. The relationship is not just to "rightist" parties like Bibi's, however.

The so-called "settlers movement" (squatters) is led by the Gush Emunim which in turn is linked to the Christian Zionists in the US. The Gush Emunim is linked to a number of parties in Israel including elements of Labour.

"While rejected by all mainline Christian churches in the United States, Christian Zionist ideology is aggressively promoted by a small minority of fundamentalists linked to the Jewish Zionist lobby in the United States and allied to the most militant extremist elements of the Israeli political spectrum.

"Although this strategic political alliance was forged in the mid-1980s, it did not become a topic of national political discussion until the current crisis triggered by the Israeli provocation and aggression led by Sharon. Even though Congressman Armey is retiring this year, his protege and fellow Texas Congressman, Tom DeLay, is scheduled to step into his place next year. Like Armey, DeLay openly espouses Christian Zionist ideology using such coded terms as “Judea and Samaria” to described occupied Palestine.

"The relevant background on the Israeli link to American Christian Zionists dates to the 1967 war. In the wake of the war, extremist elements in Israel formed the Movement for Greater Israel, and the settler movement that established Kiryat Arba near Hebron. The extremist Gush Emunim settler organization grew out of this environment.

"In the years after 1967, the Gush Emunim became the leading edge of the Israeli new right. There were three components of this new right: Labor Party factions supporting the Movement for Greater Israel, the new religious-nationalist activists, and the old-line Jabotinsky nationalist right converted into the Begin-led Herut Party.

"From 1974 to 1977, three Labor Party leaders vied for supremacy, and each had his Gush Emunim supporter within his ministry. Prime Minister Rabin had General Ariel Sharon as his special adviser. Defense Minister Shimon Peres had Yuval Neeman, later leader of the pro-Gush Emunim Hatechiyah Party. Foreign Minister Yigal Allon was the patron of the fanatic settler network behind Kiryat Arba.

"By the time Likud came to power in 1977, the power of the Gush Emunim over the government was complete because Begin was a long-time supporter of the settler movement.

"In the United States, however, the Carter administration attempted to pursue a more evenhanded policy in the Middle East in the face of an omnipotent domestic Zionist lobby. So hard-line Jewish Zionist intellectuals formerly associated with the Democratic Party adopted a new stance. They repackaged themselves as neoconservatives in order to penetrate the Republican Party foreign policy network with a view to the 1980 election and a potential victory for the US new right.

"In Israel, preparations were made by the Likud to form political relationships with Christian fundamentalist groups in the United States because they could be counted on to support Likud’s “Eretz Israel” policy. In turn, such a political alignment would enhance the position of the Jewish neoconservatives in a Republican administration in Washington." http://www.lebanonwire.com/0205/02050914DS.asp

I wrote this in May 2002 for the Beirut Daily Star.

The Christian Zionist cult ideology moves in parallel with the messianic ideology of the Gush Emunim. Hagee has addressed the AIPAC conference in the past and a large number of Christian Zionists were at AIPAC this year (as usual) along with something like half of Congress.

On the Gush Emunim squatters, see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gush_Emunim

curious

http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3868404,00.html

Palestinians: Obama wants Israel to hand over Abu-Dis to PA

US demands that Israel hand over area adjacent to Jerusalem to exclusive PA control, Palestinian sources say, adding that Americans want Palestinian state to be established within next two years

--------

Hmm, more interesting stuff.

I think:

- From Bibi point of view, politically he has few immediate downside. (he is enjoying 60% domestic Israel support, his coalition seems to hold. Congress is still warm with him.) He definitely can play the dither and waffle few months more until Obama has to face mid term.

-Domestically, Obama is in much stronger position for mid-term after passing HCR. I would say his poll, therefore Dems will climb up in the coming months. Economy is improving as well. (unemployment bill also passed)

- Big Obama draw back, he needs more diplomatic strategic depth. He definitely doesn't want to play protracted trade war/military embargo game with Israel, cause then Israel will go suicidal and blame it all on Obama for not having enough weapons, ... all of a sudden US will be in the middle of Lebanon/Syria/Iran war.

What other option Obama can build domestically from presidential seat tho'? I can't find many aside from little trade/military supply/state dept. statements&snub/allies.

nothing really getting to Bibi nerve if he is going all the way.

----------

Also, what's with the ER-JDAM to Israel story. (why on earth would anybody even consider supplying ER-JDAM to Israel? That's like giving a 6 yrs old high power sniper riffle.)

ritamary

I did not vote for Obama, but I am growing to like him more.

BillWade

That headline left me scratching my head, it read initially to me that the US had been disgraced by Bibi.

grae castle

to distill this current relationship into a simple, easy to follow question and answer, i borrow (nay, steal) an appropriate conversation from a nearby (though dated) universe.
Courtesy of the Blues Brothers - "Have you ever heard of a wish sandwich? A wish sandwich is the kind of a sandwich where you have two slices of bread and you, hee hee hee, wish you had some meat... Bow bow bow..."

And, to make sure the point isn't lost - "Ummm... the other day I had a ricochet biscuit. A ricochet biscuit is the
kind of a biscuit that's supposed to bounce back off the wall into your
mouth. If it don't bounce back, hee hee hee,... you go hungry!"
I sincerely hope Bibi returns to the land of plenty with a gnawing hunger - or maybe even better, an "empty" aipac sandwich...

William R. Cumming

Did BiBi leave the WH by the same door as the Dalai Lama?

Arun

Col. Lang,

A fund-raising letter from House Republican Leader John Boehner says:

"The Obama Administration's heated denouncement of our ally Israel's actions in approving the development of 1600 apartments in East Jerusalem during Vice President Joseph Biden's visit was beyond irresponsible.

The actions taken by Israel were absolutely consistent with the policy and commitments of three previous U.S. administrations. It is this current administration's attempt to renege on such previous promises that is abhorrent and should be condemned by all Americans. It is clearly an affront to the values and foundation of our long-term relationship, but most importantly, from a national security standpoint, it is beyond comprehension why this administration would choose to demonize and weaken Israel - the U.S.'s closest friend, the strongest democracy and our most important military ally in the Middle East.

Unfortunately, this development is just another example of how the far left ignores the principles and traditions of America. The Obama Administration has demonstrated a repeated pattern since it took office: while it makes concessions to countries acting contrary to U.S. national interests, it ignores or snubs the commitments, shared values and sacrifices of many of our country's best allies. "

...
Threatening America's relationship with Israel is a dangerous path for the far left to lead us down politically and militarily. Americans have strong ties to Israel, and will not tolerate a fraying in our two countries' relationship. And with troops in Afghanistan and Iraq, Americans will not allow the Administration to put their safety at risk. It's reckless to focus so much attention on Israel when countries like Iran pose such serious challenges to our national security.

If the Administration was serious about working toward resolving the conflict in the Middle East, it would focus on Iran's behavior - its pursuit of nuclear weapons, state-sponsorship of terrorism, crushing of domestic democratic forces, destabilizing impact on the region - and the credibility of international nonproliferation efforts. "

Just FYI.
-Arun

FDRDemocrat

Netanyahu miscalculates if he thinks the US public will give unqualified support to Israel at the same time the US military leadership is telling Congress the stalled peace process threatens the lives of US servicemen.

I don't claim a scientific sampling, but an ex-US military guy I speak with who is currently part of the program training Palestinian police in the West Bank is pretty rough on the Israelis when you raise the topic.

I think the store of good will runs dry pretty fast when the mission of US soldiers, sailors, airmen and marines is being undermined by the Israeli right wing settlement policies.

Israel could get away with giving us the single finger salute when US troops were not so evident in the region. But with two major US wars going on, the idea that Israel can lecture us about the costs of war and claim a greater understanding of the Middle East than we have is no longer going to be an easy sell.

I say this as an otherwise strong supporter of Israel. It grieves me to constantly see Netanyahu and the right wing settlers throw a wrench in the process. It is ultimately self-defeating and risky to stall the inevitable two-state solution.

EL

I don't think Bibi has any concept of how patient, determined, calm and hard Obama can be. Bibi has dinned heavily on AIPAC agitprop. Bibi should ask Bill and Hillary, Gates, Summers, Mullen, McCain, and a lot of dazed and confused Republican Senators and Representatives. I think Tizipi Livini is pleased with Obama.

eakens

healthcare will backfire on the republicans. and so will israel

Jackie

Arun,
You receive Boehner's fund raising letters? How depressing for you.

After a meeting with Bibi and Bill Clinton, Clinton remarked that Bibi thought he was the super power. Maybe Obama was forewarned.

Stormcrow

Obama is learning.

I might actually grow to respect him, if he keeps on the track he's going right now.

toto

My totally uninformed guess is that, although a momentous shift in attitude is already evident, no hard action will be taken by this administration in this term. Mid-term elections are already looming, and after that, Obama will be in full re-election mode. Since apparently the mere fact of pointing out Israel's colonial behaviour is somehow controversial in the US, this administration will probably take an extremely cautious attitude. So no bold steps, no spectacular moves, just a bit of low-key grumbling.

However, things could be very different in Obama's early second term (should there be one).

all of a sudden US will be in the middle of Lebanon/Syria/Iran war.

Wo what would be new there?

WILL

If Rand Paul, the eye doctor & Ron Paul's son who is leading the KY polls, ever makes to the U.S. senate he will change the OPTICS of the foreign policy debate!

That must be why Darth Vader Cheney has decided to get involved in the Repub primary.

jonst

Col, excellent point about the invite or lack of said same!

I think the passage of the health reform bill surprised ole Bibi. I think Bibi thought, when he invited himself, that he might very well be dealing with a wounded President, who had just lost on his major domestic proposal. Must have been an unpleasant surprise.

F5F5F5

@Clifford

Very interesting paper indeed.
The neoconservatives seem to be a rather cynical lot with an ideology meant for an elite of insiders. Am I right in thinking that christian zionism is only meant for the masses or outer circles, or is it a shared belief at all levels?

confusedponderer

F5F5F5 ,
I forgot where I read that (maybe someone else can?) but iirc Kristol the Elder once was asked how he, as an atheist, could champion for religion on the political sphere.

Iirc after a pause he replied to the effect that religion gives the rubes guidance to do 'the right thing', or what he considers that to be.

Because the Armageddonites want to fervently and unconditionally support Israel so that they can go heaven without dying, they are a natural and practical ally for the neo-cons for whom support for Israel is important.

So let them believe what they want, their support is palpable and real.

Of course that implies that intellectually they cannot feel much more than contempt for their allies. Useful idiots ...

Just recently, Karl Rove said something quite similar about the Teabaggers, calling them 'unsophisticated'.

http://rawstory.com/rs/2010/0324/rove-tea-parties-unsophisticated-people/

Fred Strack

Clifford,

Isn't Armey one of the ex-congressman behind (at least one part of) the teabagger movement? Delay's still under indictment.

Curious, damn good question. Of course given Israel's propensity to spy why buy anything at all when they can just steal it with impunity?

From Haaretz "Taking a page from Menachem Begin, he spoke not on behalf of the State of Israel, but in the name of the Jewish people itself and its millennia of history."

Thinking back to the recent photo in the Washington Post, Bibi should reflect back on that millenia of hisotry and remember that Goliath was the one with the armour, David was a teenager with a stone.

Clifford Kiracofe

F5,

A difficult and complex question.

As I argue in my book Dark Crusade, Christian Zionism is a tool of imperial policy. It appears that Napoleon first tried an appeal to "Zionism" during his Egyptian Campaign but Palestine Jewish notables wisely opted to remain with the Ottoman side.

It then appears the British noticed this. On some reflection, the British perfected it with the advent of Palmerston and his son-in- law who was a Christian Zionist (or was posing as such).

British policy called for a Jewish entity in the Holy Land and they tried to persuade the Ottomans to this effect, dangling out financial goodies from "philanthropic" Jewish bankers in London etc. The Porte demurred. A bit later we find Anglo-Zionist circles bringing the "Balfour Declaration" forward. Of course we do note it was styled as a letter to the House of Rothschild.

IMO, Palmerston was an extremely able and calculating statesman not given to delusions and magical thinking...for him Christian Zionism was a tool to rally domestic support from the "masses" for his Middle East policy. Some of the Brits, like Sir Percy Sykes I think were rather delusional on the whole matter. But then again they were cynical enough to carefully stage Allenby's entry into Jerusalem to fit the Christian Zionist mode. I get into this in by book.

As I indicated in earlier postings, circles in the US have been pushing this politically since the 1891 memorial to President Harrison. Among the 400 names on the memorial we find the Rockefellers and so on. Some of the US elite circles may be superstitious and delusional enough to believe such nonsense and some may be quite cynical in their espousal of Christian Zionism.

Bush pere was cynical on the matter. He became persuaded to indulge in it because an advisor, Doug Wead, convinced him it meant an important block of votes. Bush son, also advised by Wead, was perhaps a mix of both: cynical to get the base he needed to be elected/reelected; delusional enough to believe it.

The Neoconservative policy types numbered a few dozen originally but they were influential and a number are actually wealthy like Perle from arms deal commissions and various "consulting." The Neoconservatives are simply put a group of opportunistic Revisionist Zionist policy types.

The early generation (once Trotskyites/ists in the 1930s) comes out of the Commentary Magazine milieu: Norman Podhoretz etal. This magazine was founded by the American Jewish Committee (AJC). The self-styled and self-appointed AJC was founded in 1906 in New York City.
http://www.ajc.org/

Essentially AJC was an emanation of the Kuhn Loeb banking group which itself was an emanation of the London Rothschilds, Jacob Schiff of Kuhn Loeb being a New York agent of the Rothschilds one can say. A gentile, George Peabody, a bit earlier fronted for the Rothschild interests.

The elite "inner circle" mentality of the Neocon types derives in part from the method of Prof. Leo Strauss who separated an inner circle of "philosophers" (Neocons for example as "illuminated souls") from an outer circle of "gentlemen" (Cheney and Rumsfeld as those who needed coaching from the philosophers).

But again the Neocons are just hires in the bigger international picture. The real financial and political powers that be need consultants like lawyers, accountants, and policy types. Hires...

Clifford Kiracofe

Confusedponderer,

Excellent question. The short answer is that Irving Kristol laid it out in an article in Commentary Magazine in June(I believe) 1984.

Kristol argued that the traditional Jewish alliance with African-Americans had fallen apart because Jesse Jackson and others had become pro-Palestinian and pro-Arab.

What to do?

Kristol argues in this extremely revealing article published just a few months before the 1984 Presidential Election calls for a Jewish alignment with Christian Zionists like Falwell. He clearly indicates one has to hold one's nose but its for a good cause: Zionism and Israel.

Neocons love Nietzsche because Nietzsche argued rather bluntly that because the European gentile ruling class is decadent, they need Jewish intellectuals to run things for them...forget which book this is in but it is interesting.

By the way, I hear the Black Caucus is very upset with Obama...messing with Health Care and not dealing with the Jobs issue.

Clifford Kiracofe

Fred Strack,

Yes the full blown Christian Zionist Dick Armey is moving to consolidate control over the Tea Baggers. What Armey and company want to do is to channel the Tea Baggers and make sure they are in the Christian Zionist camp.

Again I would make the point that the Republican Party itself is the target. The "Conservative Movement" types want to fully take over the Party and do a final purge of moderates who like Ike, old time progressives who like TR, and old fashioned Taft conservatives.

The Christian Zionist block is part and parcel of the destruction and reformation of the Republican Party...very clear.

I explain all this in my book Dark Crusade. I also explain that this has roots in the fascist American Liberty League of the 1930s and its anti-FDR/New Deal Campaign.

shanks

Dinner slighting and what not, what matters is actual change in ground realities.

Will there be high profile spy arrests and clanger time?
Will Aid be made conditional or even stopped?
Will the siege of Occupied territories end?
Will a few be arrested for war crimes?

Till that happens, dinner slights, missing party streamers and odd visit times means nothing.

And they can always wait out this President, can't they? In the long line of muppet prezs since Eisenhower, there will be a few intransigent ones. Give the man a workout, if he folds, carry on else fold your cards for the time being.

My view is the same as one poster already mentioned, Russian, Slavic Jews. A different bunch and I wont be surprised, if their alliances are only partially Zionist while being willing to trade with the Russians or anyone else for money or influence.

From money laundering,drug trafficking, body parts trafficking and counterfeiting, Israel IS the next place outside of China with the least trouble to push it out to America or EU.

Anyways, with so much money to be made under the cover of Zionism, there's a little industry in playing American Jews for chumps.

And that's what they mostly are.

J

As long as Israel and its citizenry continue to wallow in their self-pity ignoring the plight of 'their treatment' of others around them, they'll continue to have 'problems'. Sad they do not learn from the lessons of their own history.

The comments to this entry are closed.

My Photo

August 2020

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
            1
2 3 4 5 6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15
16 17 18 19 20 21 22
23 24 25 26 27 28 29
30 31          
Blog powered by Typepad