« DOJ asked to register AIPAC as Foreign Agent | Main | Israel's Netanyahu: No Concession on East Jerusalem »

20 March 2010

Comments

Feed You can follow this conversation by subscribing to the comment feed for this post.

par4

War with Iran could well be catastrophic for us,but what could possibly deter our govt. from doing it.Surely not American opinion,that doesn't matter anymore. Shanghai Coop Org.?

Lysander

There is simply far too much focus on a settlement freeze. Even if achieved, it will only result in the resumption of a fake peace process. All this talk is only important if it is a prelude to the much more serious questions the US will need to ask itself;

I America's commitment to ensure Israel's eternal dominance, regardless of its behavior, becoming too costly? Is there a reasonable return on our investment? Isn't it odd that anyone aspiring to political office must constantly sing the praises of a foreign country?

If the discussion remains solely on settlements we can file this under same old same old.

After all, Bush demanded a settlement freeze too.

zanzibar

Despite the recent contretemps it seems the reality is status quo. Both our political parties and our corporate media are firmly in the camp of what's good for the Likudniks is good for America as far as foreign policy is concerned.

At this juncture it is clear that there is no political will to develop policies that are in the interest of the middle and working classes whether it is in the realm of economics or foreign policy. I suppose we can't blame our politicians since there is no public pressure of any kind for policies that further our national interest. On the other hand the squeaky wheels are the moneyed interests with their dollar flows that have purchased both our political parties lock stock and barrel.

Fred

A picture is worth a thousand words. The obvious questions are why is the strongest army in the Middle East afraid of teenagers with rocks and why are those teenagers risking death to throw rocks at the Israeli Army?

Clifford Kiracofe

Wasn't Kessler somehow involved in the AIPAC case? A "go to" guy in the media for AIPAC?

Hasn't the Meyer family rag always been Zionist? Eugene Meyer's association with Lazard bankers placed him well into the Anglo-Zionist network.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eugene_Isaac_Meyer

For a useful first hand account of Clinton's Camp David see Akram Hanieh "The Camp David Papers". http://www.jstor.org/pss/2676588

There is also a book by Clayton Swisher on same which is said to be realistic.

The glitzy AIPAC extravaganza will be followed up in late July by Hagee's Washington DC Christian Zionist fest which targets Congress.

Congress goes out in August for recess and then...war with Iran?

William R. Cumming

So is Dennis Ross an Ollie North--freelancing or doing just what his bosses want?

Clifford Kiracofe

WRC,
Well yes, Ross is doing what his bosses at the Jewish Agency want. Fine by the White House it seems. Apparently, when in Israel Biden kept repeating Ross' name to reassure everyone. Is Ross writing Biden and Hillary's speeches? Contributing to them? Vetting them?

Zanzibar,
Per the "moneyed interests" I found Stephen Birmingham's, Our Crowd The Great Jewish Families of New York rather useful per the banking families and their intermarriages and relationships. There is also today, however, a "new crowd" which is in need of documentation and analysis. Paperback at
http://www.amazon.com/Our-Crowd-Jewish-Families-History/dp/0815604114

Here is Biden's speech to AIPAC last year.

"Ladies and gentlemen, I'm here today to tell you something you already know, and I assure you this -- President Barack Obama shares that same commitment. (Applause.) His support is rooted in his personal connection to the Zionist idea to which he spoke about last year at this conference."

www.america.gov/st/texttrans-english/2009/May/
20090505161557eaifas0.7528955.html

Adam L Silverman

If you've not seen this, then please give it a look. Apparently, very quietly and behind the scenes, the Obama Administration has been holding up military aid to Israel. Including the all important bunker busters they would need to go after Iran's nuclear sites.
http://www.worldtribune.com/worldtribune/WTARC/2010/me_israel0217_03_18.asp

As for war with Iran; based on GEN Petraeus' recent remarks, let alone VP Biden's, about putting US soldiers or interests at risk, I'd wager that it wouldn't get very far. Remember to get to Iran at this point Israel will have to overfly or come close to overflying Turkey and Iraq. Turkey, while they may not be able to effectively stop it, will try to and they'll make an appeal to a NATO ally, that being the US, to deal with it. Right now Iraq's air is kept clear by the US. I don't think the Israelis really want to risk having to fly through US air responses from Balad or the carrier groups offshore. They may be obstinate, but they're not stupid!

curious

I don't understand how conventional bunker buster suppose to work. I mean, is not like country like iran can't simply throw money to defeat it. What's the point of being oil rich country if they can't use oil to create exotic material? Homogeneous concrete? what is this? 1942? They couldn't possibly be that stupid. They will build something elaborate. Heck, if the building survive, iran should go into bunker business recoup the cost. Use the surviving bunker as best advertisement eva. Who can resist that?

Imaginary construction, the layers of defense:

a) false / moveable underground room. containing minimum metal and empty spaces.

b) put it in steep mountain range.

c) anti ballistic missile. gravity bomb is slllllooooooooowwww... they say they can track missile.

d) typical anti aircraft gun. Shoot anything that look like big fat falling 2000lbs bomb .

e) ERA/active armor on top of the building. Divide the top of building into small segment. Only activate a single segment where the penetration likely to occur. uhhhh... there goes the bunker "buster" part.

f) several feet of iron ores to absorbed the era detonation and fragments. dip the ore in thick liquid mud mix with resin so the iron doesn't simply transmit the blast to structure below but dispersing it.

g) next, instead of homogeneous thick regular reinforced concrete, it's layer of high molecular weight plastic/kevlar mesh, reinforced concrete, metal sheet.

h) then come the usual underground concrete structure.

The only way to penetrate the set up above is to reactivate that metal rod bombardment from space program. ... but then everybody will go bankrupt trying to win this race.

Sidney O. Smith III

Silverman wrote
“They (presumably Likud Zionists) may be obstinate, but they're not stupid!”

Sid writes:

Obstinate but not stupid?

Hubris invariably leads to profoundly stupid acts. And humility is not Bibi’s strong point.

Notions of racial superiority are what motivate Bibi’s brand of Zionism -- a psychological profile that always ends in violence.

And you have a Ph.d, right? So when has militant racism legitimated through the misappropriation of religious symbols not ended in violence?

History has proven time and time again that it is only a question of how many innocent people will suffer before the myth of racial superiority is at long last extinguished. And one hopes in these historical circumstances, true Judaic values will triumph.

But a major problem looms, as this is the first time in world history that ethnic nationalists have the bomb.

Jericho III while reading Tehillim 149, no?

Racists murdering the innocent in the name of God always use the most lethal weapon available before self destructing. Doesn’t matter if it is a group in Oakland, the Ozarks, or Dimona. What makes this scenario different?

Obstinate but not stupid? Israel would never endanger US military personnel? Tell the USS Liberty vets the same thing and watch what happens.

You cannot sugarcoat rabid ethnic nationalism with a veneer of academic gobbledygook. General Petreaus is exactly right: Israeli actions are endangering US Soldiers. So you either stand up for US Soldiers or you sell out. Which side are you on?

And Israeli arrogance goes well beyond just endangering US troops. As Rabbi Teitelbaum teaches, the more profoundly stupid Israel acts -- and its record of late is rather remarkable -- the greater the likelihood of a rise of anti-Semitism. Teitelbaum warned the world decades ago that Zionism will trigger anti-Semitism because people will associate all Jews with Zionist atrocities.

And while Teitelbaum made his plea, progressives were sweeping Israel’s acts of ethnic cleansing under the rug and of course, all the time, telling the rest of the world how racist we are.

Perhaps the reason that Teitelbaum didn’t sell out is because he was a man who had great humility and sincere loyalty to the USA, apparently more sincere than some of those at the Pentagon, wearing a uniform and living off American taxpayer money.

Teitelbaum is to humility what Bibi is to hubris. So who ya’ gonna’ trust when it comes to defining analytical assumptions to determine Israeli actions? Who has been right so far? And who has lied time and time again and, by doing so, has placed US Soldiers at peril?

EL

According to Haaretz today, Bibi has really pissed Merkel off badly. (http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1157748.html#)

J

Look at AIPAC's latest in the Congress trying to ratchet up their Iran sanctions nonsense.

also AIPAC's latest is an update to their Bayh-Risch letter from last year

AIPAC doesn't care about our U.S. or our fellow U.S. citizenry, just their hostile-to-the-U.S. little espionage postage stamp known as Israel.

J

Forgot to include the link regarding AIPAC's latest. Here's their letter to the Congress:

Their AIPAC letter dovetails on AIPAC's latest talking points memo. Their memo

goes beyond the Senate letter by explicitly asserting that all differences between our U.S. and Israel should be worked out privately instead of in the public arena where our U.S. citizenry can see Israel's anti-U.S. nefariousness at work.

stickler

Re: the bunker busters. Is that why they went to Diego Garcia? So that they would be suddenly unavailable for shipment to Tel Aviv?

Brilliant, if true, and also if they aren't suddenly used on Tabriz.

Mary

Angela Merkel just basically called Netanyahu a weasel for lying about their call. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1157748.html And the EU just postponed its association meeting with Israel. Kouchner just met with Mitchell to affirm France's standing behind all aspects of the quartet's recent statements. Could Israel's entry to the OECD be delayed?

By the way, Dennis Ross is trying to elbow George Mitchell out of the way. See Ross's mouthpiece Laura Rozen here http://www.politico.com/blogs/laurarozen/0310/All_of_Netanyahus_advisors_.html?showall and Steve Clemons here. http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2010/03/20/show_me_the_strategy/index.php

I would like to see the veto Israel has over our government appointments revoked. Obama could start by collect Ross' scalp. His maneuvering against Mitchell at this delicate juncture is beyond the pale.

Phil Giraldi

Adam - I agree that the Obama Administration is trying to slow the rush to war, but it is not as if we are the only players in the game. Israel knows it cannot do serious damage to Iran's nuclear program - it needs the US to do it for them. One way to draw Washington into a war is to attack Iran with the reasonable expectation that Iran will retaliate against both the US and Israel. The only option a US president has to stop such an attack is what you describe as "US air responses" but which really means shooting down the Israeli aircraft as they transit Iraq (either coming or going). Sorry, but I can't see Obama or anyone else ordering that. So that means the Israelis are pretty much in control and can dictate what might or might not develop vis-a-vis a possible war with Iran. Washington might be able to preempt the process by warning the Israelis openly and publicly against such an action and putting teeth in the warning by threatening to withhold all aid, but I don't see that happening either.

Patrick Lang

All

Someone suggested that the neocon Zionists have a veto over presidential appointments.

Can that be? pl

par4

Did anyone read the comments in Adam's link?

The beaver

@ Kiracoge

The Bilderberg's Annual conference is another example of "little clique of powerful men who meet secretly and plan events that appear to 'just happen'.":

http://www.modernhistoryproject.org/mhp/ArticleDisplay.php?Article=FinalWarn08-3
"We are grateful to the Washington Post, the New York Times, Time magazine, and other great publications whose directors have attended our meetings and respected their promises of discretion for almost forty years ... It would have been impossible for us to develop our plan for the world if we had been subject to the bright lights of publicity during these years. But, the world is now more sophisticated and prepared to march towards a world government. The supernational sovereignty of an intellectual elite and world bankers is surely preferable to the national auto-determination practiced in past centuries."

Check on the "who's and who" who have been attendees over the yrs ( only North Americans and Europeans) even though lately we have seen some guests from Turkey and some "token guests" like Zakaria or "anti-Ayatollahs Iranians"

Lysander

Col Lang, in answer to your question, I'm afraid it can;

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/1132797.html

"American Jews eye Obama's 'anti-Israel' appointees "

"Every appointee to the American government must endure a thorough background check by the American Jewish community.

In the case of Obama's government in particular, every criticism against Israel made by a potential government appointee has become a catalyst for debate about whether appointing "another leftist" offers proof that Obama does not truly support Israel.

A few months ago, boisterous protests by the American Jewish community helped foil the appointment of Chaz Freeman to chair the National Intelligence Council, citing his "anti-Israel leaning."
Advertisement
The next attempt to appoint an intelligence aide, in this case, former Republican senator Chuck Hagel, also resulted in vast criticism over his not having a pro-Israel record.

American Zionists are urging Obama to cancel Hagel's appointment because of what they call a long and problematic record of hostility toward Israel.

The president of the Zionist Organization of America, Morton A. Klein, described Hagel's nomination as such: "Any American who is concerned about Iran's drive to obtain nuclear weapons, maintaining the Israeli-U.S. relationship and supporting Israel in its legitimate fight to protect her citizens from terrorism should oppose this appointment."

Republican Jews have also protested Hagel's appointment, citing an incident in 2004 when Hagel refused to sign a letter calling on then-president George Bush to speak about Iran's nuclear program at the G8 summit that year.

In August of 2006, Hagel refused to sign a letter requesting the UN declare Hezbollah a terrorist organization.

In a speech at the conference of self-declared "pro-peace, pro-Israel" lobby J Street, Hagel spoke about his views on the issue of Israel and the Middle East.

"The United States' support for Israel need not be - nor should it be - an either-or proposition that dictates our relationships with our Arab allies and friends. The U.S. has a long and special relationship with Israel, but it must not come at the expense of our Arab relationships," Hagel said.

The latest round of heated debate has been over the nomination of Hannah Rosenthal to head the Office to Monitor and Combat Anti-Semitism in the Obama administration.

Rosenthal, who is the daughter of a Holocaust survivor, served as a Health Department regional director under the Clinton administration, and held positions in different left-leaning Jewish organizations.

Between 2000 and 2005, Rosenthal was the head of the Jewish Council for Public Affairs; she was also the executive director of the Chicago Foundation for Women. In recent years, she has served on the advisory board of the J Street lobby.

The president of Americans for Peace Now lauded Obama's appointment of Rosenthal. Even Anti-Defamation League chairman Abraham Foxman came out in support of Rosenthal's appointment.

"This appointment signals the continued seriousness of America?s resolve to fight anti-Semitism," Foxman said in a statement.

Shortly after the announcement of Rosenthal's nomination, conservative Jewish web sites began to attack her, some of them declaring that Obama appointed an anti-Israeli to fight anti-Semitism.

Rumors brewed that she had accused Israel of systemically strengthening anti-Semitism. Bloggers argued that her appointment would cause Jews and Israelis to cast doubt on Obama and his relationship with Israel.

In one of her articles, Rosenthal criticized conservative voices in the Jewish community who she accused of taking over the discourse regarding the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

"It's a scary time, with people losing the ability to differentiate between a Jew, any Jew, and what's going on in Israel," Rosenthal said.

In an interview with the new online Jewish magazine, Tablet, Rosenthal said that she loves Israel.

"I have lived in Israel. I go back and visit every chance I can. I consider it part of my heart. And because I love it so much, I want to see it safe and secure and free and democratic and living safely," Rosenthal said "

ServingPatriot

@Adam,

Remember to get to Iran at this point Israel will have to overfly or come close to overflying Turkey and Iraq. Turkey, while they may not be able to effectively stop it, will try to and they'll make an appeal to a NATO ally, that being the US, to deal with it. Right now Iraq's air is kept clear by the US. I don't think the Israelis really want to risk having to fly through US air responses from Balad or the carrier groups offshore.

Why not a route through and over Saudi Arabia? Seems eminently plausible to me - so long as the Royals can keep control over their angry, religiously radicalized youth. After all, the Saudis have as much, perhaps more to fear from the Iranians that Israel does. Of course, despite the billions in fancy equipment, the Saudis are completely unable to do what Israel can do.

Personally, if (or better, when) an attack comes, my guess is an attack vector from the Arabian Peninsula. And probably one from the Empty Quarter at that.

SP

J

Colonel,

Based on 'actions' by the Obama administration, I sadly have to concur with the suggestion that the NEOCON ZIONISTS [for emphasis] have our nation's White House by its balls. Sadly the compliant media has been a party to the Neocon Zionists castration of our nation's foreign policy.
Bibi is (shudder) our nation's defacto puppet master.

Patrick Lang

Sid

I know Adam Silverman quite well and he is none of the things that are implied by your most recent comment. pl

Clifford Kiracofe

Several points:

1. I believe I recall that there was a large delivery of ordnance to Israel in the fall of 2004 prior to the elections. Bunker busters may have been included. The reasoning for the delivery was said to be that if Bush lost the election, at least Israel would have the ordnance stockpiled.

2. For an attack on Iran, perhaps the Suez 1956 scenario. That is, Israel, UK, France pre-arranged the war together. The decision was jointly made to let Israel lead off so that public opinion could be generated behind the war in UK and France who would then enter to assist heroic Israel: Nasser as Hitler, etc. was the propaganda line.

So Israel could trigger something and the US would step in/join in as one scenario.

3. As far as I know the pro-Israel Lobby network vets appointments in various ways, including amabassadorial appointments outside the Middle East. There was a story a while back that the White House/Rahm even denied Hillary a top staff aide (who is Jewish no less).

Basically, you want to control the nomination process in both parties. That way you don't lose. Arguably, the pro-Israel has attained this ability.

4. Beaver, yes they are one influential "club" like Trilateral and Davos etc. Global movers and shakers developing policy consensus. This gets one into the analysis of transnational elites and their impact on policy (domestic and foreign.)

Anna Missed a little while back mentioned Prof. Carrol Quigley...a well informed academic to say the least. Clinton studied under him I believe.

Sidney O. Smith III

My apologies. As mitigating circumstances, I was focusing primarily on Bibi. Secondly, I was examining some of Dr. Silverman’s analytical assumptions by relying upon the work of Rabbi Teitelbaum. Obviously Dr. Silverman is not of the Bibi ilk. Such an association was never intended.

But, at least right now, I am not sure the J - Street approach will work, no matter how well meaning, and I say that as someone who use to associate himself with progressive Zionism. But Israel is not a liberal democracy and such an analytical assumption must be questioned, at least in my opinon. My methodology not much different than an appellate judge questioning an attorney's stance, at least so I thought.

The comments to this entry are closed.

My Photo

July 2020

Sun Mon Tue Wed Thu Fri Sat
      1 2 3 4
5 6 7 8 9 10 11
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19 20 21 22 23 24 25
26 27 28 29 30 31  
Blog powered by Typepad