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13 November 2009

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William R. Cumming

Question? Many civil agencies and large corporations have in place systems and processes for identification of potential workplace violence and dealing with it preventively and if it occurs. Doe the US Army have in place any such procedures and were any in place at FT HOOD and who exactly administers that system if it does in fact exist? I know questions, quesions! And by the way since Islam and Christendom have been fighting since 700A.D (or C.E. if you prefer) what efforts are documented in the last several decades to reconcile that war by either side?

Ael

Yes, common sense does suggest that american foreign policies played a role in the Fort Hood massacre (perpetrated by a native son of Virginia). Just like american domestic policies played a role in the Oklahoma City bombing by a native son of New York.

You may agree or disagree with the policies in question, but to suggest that they had no role whatsoever defies reason.

WILL

Come on Col. get real. Any disease can be modeled by 1)the genetic pre-dispostion and the 2) environmental disruptor.

in this case 1) in an expanded role has to include that he is an American Muslim & American-Palestinian. Also that although gifted in using his prefrontal cerebral cortex academically to gain his biochem & medical degree, he apparently used his limbic and reptilian brain for the rest of his decision making.

The 2) is living in an America where the mainstream media take every fact regarding Palestine and turn it on its head and inside out so the victims become the aggresors and terrorists.

A man of his position and training and in whom such trust had been reposed should have overcome such obstacles & become stronger for them.

As for Krauthammer, the Canadian Jewish American Neokon Likudnik, he has also failed to overcome his limitations. All his columns are slanted to advance his Likudnik agenda. A squandering of his law & psychiatric training.

Nancy K

I as a rule cannot stand Krauthammer but he does make sense in this case. I was a psychiatric nurse for 20 years and I worked with abused children for several years. I saw and heard many sad and horrible things but I never felt like going out and hurting other nurses, or other innocents which is what Hasan has done.

I feel all acts of unspeakable violence against others is terrorism. McVeigh was a terrorist, 911 was a terrorist act, the bombings in the markets in Iraq and Afganistand are terrorist acts. Whether Hasan was working with and for other Islamist terrorist groups is another question.
He quite possibly is a miserable, vengeful, hate filled terrorist acting alone.

Patrick Lang

Will and Ael

I don't give a damn about any of that pseudo scientific nonsense.

I don't give a damn about anyone's political grievances, real or imagined.

This man was and will be an officer of the United States Army until he is convicted. There is nothing, NOTHING that can ever justify what he did!!

I hope they shoot the bastard strapped to a chair. pl

Fred

Quite accurate in condemning the 'They suffered. He listened. He snapped.' reaction. No such mass killings as everyone watching TV 'snapped' by repeatedly seeing the events of 9-11 replayed for days on end.

As to 'innocent by reason of insanity', that should really be changed to 'guilty by reason of insanity.' Then we as a society can determine an appropriate course of action for those convicted.

jedermann

Wow! We Upper West Siders are really getting the snot slung at us from all those who fancy themselves as not-PC. (Woody Allen has a lot to answer for.) I would bet that there is something that could be called political correctness in combat units of the U.S. military and I would also bet that the American Enterprise Institute has its own brand and that neither bears any resemblance politically to the caricature that Mr. Krauthammer means when he uses the term. Just as all politics is local, so is Political Correctness.

Political Correctness, in the popular definition so successfully branded and marketed by packagers on the right, is a kind of reflexive, thoughtless Liberalism. It exists and I have seen it in action. I have also seen the same mechanism operate with different assumptions. The problem is not in the Liberalism or the Conservatism; it is in the reflexive thoughtlessness. Mr. Krauthammer is no doubt a very bright and articulate man, but his case against others being made foolish by Political Correctness would ring a lot truer if his own commentaries did not so regularly partake of the reflexive and the thoughtless. Check out some of his columns from the last presidential campaign season.

Charles I

Res Ipsa Loquitur. One pissed of anrgy muslim officer with guns. No brainer. Be like saying religion of an abortion-doctor murderer is of no account. May be legitimately angry over an issue reasonable people can vehemently disagree on, but fucked in the head with a comforting religious narrative that turns cowardly murder into religious gore.

Now as to "what's next, Canadians?" all I can do is mangle one of Pat's earlier statements about Justice for the Palestinians:

Whoever /shoots/invades my tribe gonna be damn sorry they aimed at a Canadian. Twit us all you like, abuse us at your peril.

ked

No, please... not the Canadians.

Cieran

Colonel:

I agree completely with you here. The "what" of Hasan's actions is infinitely more important than the "why". There are more than a dozen dead innocents, and no amount of understanding of Hasan's motivations will make a bit of difference to them.

Hasan should step up and take responsibility for his actions, including accepting the punishment he deserves for mass murder. All else is secondary.

Ael

Colonel,

With respect, understanding the motivation for an action is not the same thing as justifying that action.

If the USA had not invaded Iraq I expect that the massacre at Ft Hood would not have happened. In fact, one may even have predicted some sort of domestic terror blowback (eg. London bombings, etc).

Does the invasion *justify* the domestic terror. Of course not!

Trent

As for Krauthammer, even a broken clock, etc.

Patrick Lang

Ael

With regard to the issue of crime and punishment, his motives are unimportant.

The Army trusted him without regard to his origins and he betrayed us all.

You do not grasp the significance of having this commissioned officer attack US soldiers.

It means nothing to you. pl

lina

Does anyone know for a fact that he is NOT insane?

Why did the Army trust him after he sought to be discharged? That would never happen in a corporate setting. When someone submits their resignation, you take away their keys to the building, change the combination on the safe, and watch them like a hawk until they are safely off the premises.


somebody

The logic here is highly flawed.

Probably we all here tried alcohol when we were young.
A few got stuck. Most of us did not. So alcohol is not dangerous, no?

Reverse the argument, if he is a normal person, what does this say about his act?

Ael

You are incorrect that I do not grasp the significance of this incident.

When dealing with serious breakdowns in order and discipline you need to determine motivations to at least the extent that one can determine whether it is a "once off" incident or "systematic". If it is once off, you can safely hang the bastard and go about your daily business. If it is systematic, you need to fix the army before the situation repeats or worsens.

Allen Thomson


Just on a point of detail that might touch on warning signs, it appears that Maj. Hasan was pulling down $8,000/month or so in pay, plus housing and other extras. But he was living in a $325/mo apartment, driving a 2006 Civic, and had no expensive habits that are apparent.

It's kind of the inverse of the classical spies like Ames who were living well beyond their means. Instead of "where did he get the money?", it's "where was the money going?" Investments? CDs? Charities?

Patrick Lang

somebody

I have no idea what you mean. Explain. pl

Patrick Lang

lina

It is not a crme to ask to be allowed to resign. pl

Arun

The Army trusted him without regard to his origins and he betrayed us all.

Indian PM Indira Gandhi refused to remove her Sikh bodyguards, even though she knew she was in their crosshairs for having ordered Operation Blue Star - the Indian army stormed the Sikh holiest-of-holies Golden Temple in Amritsar to remove militants who were amassing weapons there.

Indira Gandhi was assassinated by two of her Sikh bodyguards on 31 October 1984.

Of course, the US has no need to affirm any trust in Muslims.

prj20

I think it is possible that Maj. hassan's own personal interpretation of Islam led him to his actions.

It is though certain, because he told us on many occasions, that George W. Bush led us to invade Iraq because in larger part due to his interpretation of Christianity.

Amir

http://www.deredactie.be/permalink//1.630278

Interpretation of Hassan by Erik De Soir, a psychological trauma specialist of the Belgian army, knew Hassan.

Andy

Ael,

Are you seriously suggesting the "cause" of this massacre could be "systematic" problems in the US Army?

Clifford Kiracofe

Well, David Brooks addresses the PC angle in his "Rush to Therapy" in the NYT:

"...It ignored the fact that this narrative can be embraced by a self-radicalizing individual in the U.S. as much as by groups in Tehran, Gaza or Kandahar.

It denied, before the evidence was in, the possibility of evil. It sought to reduce a heinous act to social maladjustment. It wasn’t the reaction of a morally or politically serious nation."
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/10/opinion/10brooks.html?_r=1

Hasan is a terrorist; whether "self-radicalized" or coached by persons in the US and/or abroad. He just committed mass murder witnessed by some hundreds of people.

The man is KNOWN to have queried an AQ linked extremist preacher in Yemen also American born. This is a common practice in the Internet era: queries to Muslim religious authorities asking for insight and guidance.

I mentioned on another thread, Europe has been dealing with the "homegrown terrorist" problem for some time whether Basque separatists or Muslim terrorists of various stripes.

Attorney General Holder just a few months ago, as I posted on another thread, WARNED about the increasing challenge of home grown terrorism. Congress has had hearings on the issue. Former Attorney General Mukasey who has himself tried terrorists has given the opinion that Hasan is a terrorist.

Now breaking news reports this evening indicate Hasan may have been involved in wire transfer of money to Pakistan. As I noted in another post, his income at nearly $100,000 per year and his $350 per month apartment with little furniture etc raises issues such as to whom does he donate/give this money? Family in the Middle East perhaps but....this does fit certain terrorist profiles with AQ links as I imagine experts will begin to say publicly.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article
/ALeqM5ihGepAkECGoDagETVBMpPb3w7Y3gD9BUTLKO1

Some press speculation this evening is that he could try a plea bargain to escape the death penalty if he trades information about terrorist connections for a life sentence.

With reference to PC-ism, in the early Cold War era there was a phalanx of these people when it came to the issue of Communist espionage in the US all of them in various states of denial about the threat. Then NSA later as a historical project declassified some of the signals intell:
http://www.nsa.gov/public_info/declass/venona/dated.shtml

The past Attorney General, the present Attorney General, and Congressional Committees have in public warned about homegrown terrorism and the general threat of international terrorism here.

Seems to me, given what has so far been in the press, it is evident that Hasan is a homegrown extremist Muslim terrorist, mass murderer, and traitor. This issue is not going to go away; this is just the beginning...

alnval

Col. Lang:

I agree with Krauthammer. I just wish he wouldn’t make it seem so simple.

Hasan’s crime is not just murder. It’s murder and betrayal. One aspect of this betrayal was touched on momentarily by Lt Gen Cone Fort Hood’s commanding general who, when asked at the press conference why other soldiers in the room weren’t carrying weapons to defend themselves or some such nonsense replied, “Fort Hood is our home.” The implications of that should be self-evident.

In the civilian sector, we also have examples of betrayal of the public trust although none as far-reaching or destructive of the fabric of the organization as Major Hasan’s betrayal of his oath as a commissioned officer.

Consider the nurse who administers over-doses to her bedridden patients or the fire department arson investigator who sets fires so he can watch them being put out or the police officers who organize their own burglary ring or plant evidence in order to gain a conviction, or the school teacher or priest who sexually molest the children in their care.

Unfortunately, these actions of traditionally respected and trusted members of society have become almost so commonplace as to no longer startle us or even give us pause to consider that our trust in their willingness to accept and carry out faithfully the responsibilities we gave them has been betrayed.

I’m hoping that your rage at Major Hasan will remind us of what we have to lose by tolerating a society that treats moral imperatives as topics for endless debate and not as triggers for action.

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