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02 May 2009

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Dave of Maryland

At first I thought, what if local rogue US commanders took to making pot shots at overflying Israeli aircraft, but then, like Mr. Cumming, I realized the prospect of anti-air devices in the Iraqi theatre were slight.

But then I thought, it wouldn't make any difference anyway. If the Israelis want a war that badly, they will factor in possible US anti-aircraft capabilities & take steps to suppress them. Remind me again how many Israeli pilots are dual nationals? Or am I confusing that with the USS Liberty of long ago?

All of which means the Iranians would be correct in seeing any attack as a joint Israeli-US affair & reacting accordingly. The Israelis are rabid dogs. They have to attack someone or they go nuts. So long as there's a cartridge left in the revolver.

So Bibi comes to Washington. Bibi & Obama are all smiles, at least in public. And Obama's smile is all the approval Bibi needs for his war. If our new president is as smart as he claims, he would do well to return the snub, in the most public manner possible.

Patrick Lang

Norman

I look forward to your comments. You are a perfect foil. pl

Patrick Lang

DoM

I realy do not think that Israel has any equipment effective agains US systems.

Dual nationals? Pilots in the IDF Air Force? In the Liberty attack? I doubt it. pl

Patrick Lang

Norman

You are right. It is difficult and fearsome to contemplate the many pro-Israeli comments that I receive but yours is so special that you get to be posted instead of all the others.

BTW. That means "by the way" in English. You would be more effective if you learned enough about the US and its government to know tyhe difference betwee the CIA and the FBI and their functions. The "sting" that bagged Franklin and the other two formerly accused spies was run by the FBI which is part of the Department of Justice. Among their functions is counter-intelligence at the national level. You know, like Shin Bet.

Anyway, some better area knowledge on the US would make you a better "hasbara" writer.

I can't decide if you are an Israeli teenager or an 80 year old British pensioner. You are at least plausible enough for that confusion. pl

J

Colonel,

It appears Mr. Cone has not a clue as to the Saudis. The Saudis are 'respectful' unlike Mr. Cone and his 'crew'. IMO, Mr. Cone could take a lesson from the Arab world, at least he would learn what it is to be 'human' instead of the hatefulness that his crew exhibits towards everyone around them.

The Saudis have not hurt our U.S. national security and endangered those I love, the Israelis have!!!

Fred

The Ha’aretz article was very interesting, to summarize, if Iran goes nuclear Iran therefore will control most of the world’s oil supply and Syria becomes a satellite. Of course this was a gem: …”“A country's leaders are obligated by commitments they make in public, which often compel them to keep their promises.” Bibi seems to be following the example of that prior American President “We don’t torture” Bush who abrogated the anti-ballistic missile treaty, amongst other ‘commitments’.

So, after Israel has attacked Iran “Israel will be required to embark on a diplomatic process with the Palestinians, and perhaps with the Syrians, too.” Guess Annapolis and all its preceding agreements were not ‘diplomatic’ processes.

I hope everyone in America enjoyed $4 gas last summer, once Bibbi has his war you can bet we’ll have plenty of gas at $4 plus. And you thought the economy was bad now.

Abrogast, you are a couple of presidential administrations late. The theory of infinite capital is a neo-con gem of the Chicago school of economics. Cut taxes, govt. revenues go up; except when they don’t. Then just keep spending money so Grover Norquist can ‘drown government in a bathtub” (of debt)… of course the ‘free market’ will set everything straight. (btw I followed the second post’s link, I can’t speak for Tyler’s economic background, but he’s got a great profile photo on blogger).
WRC, I would not know about US air defenses in Iraq, but since we have complete air supremacy it would be un-needed other than for localized support or just this kind of proposed over flight.

Anon “They are thinking on a different scale than rest of us, on a different scale altogether.” This applies to the Chinese also, and they are a far greater strategic threat to the US that Iran or Israel.“

sbj

I'm no military or foreign policy strategist, but it seems to me that the aggressive posture of 'Bibi' and his 'friends' and other 'dupes' here in the US and elsewhere is simply to continue the Neocon/Jacobin agenda for perpetual war and chaos in the region until such time as the core elements of the power structure there magically changes completely and the US controls all the energy reserves and Israel has no Arab or Persian enemies left. In the end I don't think the motivation is much more complicated than that.

Of course the invasion of Iraq is the perfect example of how fantasies such as the one Bibi & Co are hawking inevitably create even more of a mess, but reality-based thinking is almost always non-existent at the extremes of the ideological spectrum.

Mary

Israel's actions with respect to Iran confirm that Iraq was a proxy war for Israel all along. The confirmation that our Congress has been captured will be if they pass those new onerous sanctions on Iran that AIPAC and Harman and her crew are pushing. As one who has only recently come to this realization, I am beyond furious. The rest of the public can't be far behind.

Cosmic

William R. Cumming, I second Charles I's assessment that Arab states will likely stand by and watch. I've watched the ratcheting up of anti-Iranian rhetoric the past few months in the Egyptian state-controlled press. The constant references to the rise of Iranian influence and fears of Shiite proselytization in Egyptian and other Arab countries suggests that the old bloc of conservative, nominally pro-American Arab states will not left a finger, if not actively cooperate in containing fallout from an attack. There would be much verbal condemnation of Israeli aggression, which is typical, but no concrete measures of any sort. Even Syria, I think, has learned well the lesson of 1982. Hezbollah and other non-state actors are another issue though.

Rider

It might seem a small, simple step, but AIPAC lobbyists should be required to register as agents of a foreign power.

There needs to be active review and enforcement of the U.S. Arms Export Control Act. It seems to me that a major supplier of arms to Israel we do have responsibility to the international community, particularly in light of Israel's recent bellicose threats (not to mention the Second Lebanon War and Operation Cast Lead).

Nothing is going to change overnight. But it is time now - past time, really - to begin to take whatever steps can be taken.

JBV

How many Americans in Iraq would find themselves in imminent danger once it was known Israel flew over Iraqi airspace to bomb Iran?

Utter madness that American lives are treated so disdainfully by ignorant, arrogant idiots.

Nancy K

J is obviously a man or he wouldn't think so highly of the Saudi's. I may not like our financial support of Israelor their involvement in our affairs but I sure as hell do no support anything about Saudi Arabia. Unless you are a muslim male, and a rich one at that, life is not so great. I would rather be a muslim woman in Israel than one is Saudi Arabia.

Adam

For info on AIPAC methods i highly recommend,

They Dare to Speak Out: People and Institutions Confront Israel's Lobby by Paul Findley (Author)

J

Nancy K,

It appears that you have never interacted with the Arabs, which is too bad. The Arabs, and Saudis in particular are honorable in that they will fight a circle saw on your behalf if you're their friend, and on the flip side they'll tell you to your face while looking you squarely in your eyes if you're on their shit list. The Saudis unlike the Israeli government do not 'backstab'. With the Saudis and most Arabs, you know where you stand with them. And there are no better hosts on this planet than Saudis in particular and Arabs in general. They take to heart what a 'guest' is and how to treat one.

The Saudis have not hurt my U.S.'s security, whereas the Israeli government has. It was not the Saudis that killed over 3,000 on 911, it was a handful of Jihadis. It was the Israel government and their IDF who murdered U.S. military crewmen on an unarmed U.S. military vessel named the USS Liberty. It was the Israeli government and their Mossad that intentionally withheld life-saving Intel regarding the Beirut Barracks Bombing that cost U.S. military lives.

It is Israel that has compromised U.S. national security on more than one occasion, the Saudis have not. As far as I am concerned, the State of Israel doesn't deserve our U.S. friendship in any way shape or form. By their actions the Saudis have shown they are our friends, the Israelis have proven by their actions (espionage, murders, etc.)that they are our enemy.

Rider

Mr. Cone

Yes, there is a Saudi lobby in the U.S. Their staff are in compliance with the Foreign Agents Registration Act in contrast to AIPAC. Correct me if I'm wrong. The Saudi lobby does not try to defeat Congressmen if they criticize Saudi Arabia or Islam. The Saudi lobby does not try to get university professors fired if they criticize Saudi Arabia or Islam. The Saudi lobby does not try to get presidents to walk back ambassadorial appointments to other countries in the region if the nominee should criticize Saudi Arabia.

Saudi Arabia has respected U.S. laws, including the U.S. Arms Export Control Act, and has not used U.S.-made weapons to conduct military aggression on its neighbors. Saudia Arabia has not used U.S. made weapons to bomb densely-populated civilian zones or to carry out "targeted assassinations," both in neighboring countries and in areas it is occupying in violation of international law. Saudia Arabia has not attacked U.N schools full of children with white phosphorus munitions. In short, Saudi Arabia - for all its internal flaws - has respected both U.S. and international law, while Israel has flouted both since Eisenhower was president. The Arab Peace Proposal currently being place on the table by President Obama was originally, seven years ago, known as the Saudi Peace Proposal. King Abdullah not only put the proposal forward but negotiated with the entire Arab world to back it up, a proposal for peace and normal relations between the Arab States and Israel.

I think what concerns many of us here, is that Israel is a long-time ally which seems to be acting like a rogue nation, out of control and, in fact, exercising control over not only U.S. foreign policy but internal affairs as well as public discourse in the United States, i.e., the tail is wagging the dog.

Byron Raum

I feel I should add one more point to J's excellent response to Nancy K. Question for her:- You say that you'd rather be a Muslim woman in Israel than a Muslim woman in Saudi Arabia. But I note you're careful to not specify if you'd rather be a Muslim woman in the occupied territories. If you are so interested in the causes of women in specific, I suggest you take a look at how Israelis treat Palestinian women.

J

Colonel,

Just look at some of the attendees of the AIPAC conference, the 'Who's Who' of Israel's influence peddling in D.C.: former CIA DCI James Woolsey; Washington Institute for Near East Policy (WINEP) executive director Robert Satloff; and former Coalition Provisional Authority press spokesman Dan Senor of the Council on Foreign Relations. Don't forget Representative Jane Harman (D-CA), Harman is but one of AIPAC's many water toters in our U.S. Congress. The presence of Israel's top government, military, diplomatic, and intelligence leadership at the AIPAC policy conference, shows beyond all doubt that AIPAC is running afoul of FARA.

greg0

Good posting at Brad Blog by Sibel Edmonds. Here is a quote:
"Despite a certain degree of exposure, cases such as Harman's and Hastert's, involving corruption of public officials, seem to meet the same dead-end. Criminal conduct, by powerful foreign entities, against our national interest, is given a pass, as was recently proven by the abandonment of the AIPAC spy case. The absence of real investigative journalism and the pattern of blackout by our mainstream media seem now to have been almost universally accepted as a fact of life."
http://www.bradblog.com/?p=7117

William R. Cumming

Thanks Charles. Helpful comment. I wonder what "Secret agreements or protocols" the US has with any of the middle-eastern states and Israel? Could all this be a replay of how the assassination of the ArchDuke in Serbia started the ball rolling in WWI?

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