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23 January 2009


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British TV is not, by and large, corporate owned. The BBC is funded by its viewers, Channel 4 (the one you saw) is publically owned but funded by advertising. The main commercial channel, ITV, is privately owned but not by big corporations. The only channel which is seriously pro-Israel, like America, is Sky News run by Rupe.


The veteran and knowledgeable neo-con and AIPAC watcher Jim Lobe is quite optimistic about Obama and his appointment of George Mitchell:



don't you all think this thread is getting stupidly racist?

Clifford Kiracofe

Per Israeli medical experimentation on Palestinians:

""Patients died on the floor of the operating room because we had only six operating rooms," said Dr. Saeed Abuhassan, M.D, an ICU doctor who grew up in Chicago. "And really we don't know enough about the kinds of weapons that have been used against Gaza."

In 15 years of practice, Dr. Abuhassan says he never saw burns like those he saw here. The burns, blackish in color, reached deep into the muscles and bones. Even after treatment was begun, the blackish color returned.

Two of the patients were sent to Egypt because they were in such critical condition. They died in Egypt. But when autopsies were done, reports showed that the cause of death was poisoning from elements of white phosphorous that had entered their systems, causing cardiac arrests.

In Gaza City, The Burn Unit's harried director, a plastic surgeon and an expert in treating burns, told us that after encountering cases they'd never seen before, doctors at the center performed a biopsy on a patient they believed may have suffered chemical burns and sent the sample to a lab in Egypt. The results showed elements of white phosphorous in the tissue."

Michael Chevalier

I have to agree with somebody. I am sure this will offend some but the skew into IQ is not germane IMO.




Thanks for clearing up my misconceptions.

Why do you think a Channel 4 can produce such a segment but PBS (taxpayer and viewer supported) does not? Sometimes Frontline does push the edge though.

I am trying to understand the difference between British and US media when it comes to reporting of sensitive issues. Why they do what they do.

When you say Channel 4 is publicly owned, do you mean traded on an exchange. While ITV is a closely held company? Is it family owned or just a bunch of private investors?

Thanks for helping out.

Clifford Kiracofe

"Israel has taken measures to protect the identity of Gaza war commanders as the case for war crimes in the populated area gains momentum.

Israeli authorities have issued an order banning the publication of the full name and photographs of the field commanders of the Gaza war, the Haaretz reported.

The measure has been taken amid concerns that international bodies and rights groups are planning to take legal actions against the high-ranking Israeli commanders who have been involved in the alleged war crimes in the Gaza Strip."

Anyone have names and photos? I would be interested.


Israel should make peace while it's ahead.
In the world, the holocaust's memory will only get dimmer. The generation born after 1967 does not see Israel as the little plucky country in the midst of larger Arab nations. Muslim countries and countries outside the Judaeo-christian tradition (China, India) are gaining in power.
In the US, Muslims are gaining in numbers (cf Obama "we are nation of Christians and Muslims, Jews and Hindus". Muslims were listed ahead of jews. 40 years ago, non-denominational in the US meant protestant, catholic and jewish. no more). The grip of the pro-Israeli narrative is still strong in the MSM, but the internet has allowed many critical voices a forum. Web organziging and internet money is decreasing the power of PACs and by extention AIPAC. And the Iraq war has discredited pro-Israeli hawks in the eyes of many.
In Israel/Palestine, Arabs are increasing as a share of the overall population. As the option of "transfer" becomes less and less possible, Israel will face the choice of either abandoning democracy by disenfrachising its Arab citizens, or abandoning its Jewish character.
In the arab world, democracy is moving forward and democratic arab societies will be more formidable foes. And Arabs and Muslims are technologically and militarily catching up (cf. Iran's nuclear program/ Hezbollah stalemating the IDF).

Because of all that, I think the peak of Israeli power vis a vis Palestinians and neighboring Arabs was in 1979, when Egypt made peace and dropped out as an opponent. Since then Israeli power relative to its remaning foes has been in steady decline. The one time events of the collapse of Soviet Union and then 9/11 gave it temporary boosts. But before long all these secular trends will become very apparent. And the Israeli reaction will become more violent in an effort to maintain the illusion of superiority.
Hopefully, Israeli leaders will see the long term picture and make peace while they're ahead.



What the world lacks are real statesmen.

That breed does not exist in contemporary society. Its more important these days how the kabuki is done and what the beltway cocktail circuit gossip's all about.

Ken Roberts

This is the 400th anniversary of the use of the telescope for astronomy. Here's a story about interpretation of data.

For the first 8-10 years of telescopic observation, there was a strange conundrum. The planets, wandering stars, now showed as disks whereas fixed stars were still just points.

The exception was Saturn, which was not round. Using a better telescope just made the problem worse - no matter how good the seeing, Saturn just looked less and less like what was expected. It was only after a decade of observation that someone came up with the hypothesis that Saturn was a sphere within a flat tilted ring.

Once the model was proposed, subsequent observations confirmed it, and improving instrumentation improved the confirmations.

So, sitting here far away from the Middle East, Gaza etc, perhaps we are using telescopes? If our model shifts someday, we may see much differently, without a change of reported data.


To add to that thought, Ken Roberts, our visual difficulties are often compounded because we all have our favored forms of refraction. In reality, sometimes convex works better than concave, and vice-versa. And sometimes, our mirrors have a big blind spot.


we talk about Israeli policy, but it's the USA aviation fuel, bullets, airplanes, munitions, vetoes at the U.N. that funds and enables, provides support for the war machine. It provides the diplomatic cover and the werewithal for the illegal occupation and settlements. The fault is as much w/ us as w/ them .

The digression into the IQ is to explain how the 2% tail can wag the dog. Such discussion in the past was strictly verboten. Since Walt & Mearsheimer, and Pat Buchanan it is more in the open.
We ignore such things as Iraq, Gaza, & those that want to provoke a war w/ Iran at our peril.

9.11 did not occur in a vacuum. It had a real connection to the Israeli bringing down of the towers of Beirut in 1982. (not the sole cause)

They may not have used white phosphorus in Gaza b/ they invented an infernal tungsten bomb that vaporizes certain death on those below.

Tungsten bombs' leave Israel's victims with mystery wounds ‘ UK Independent

Ten Thousand Civilians died in Sharon’s invasion of Lebanon in 1982
Everybody discounts UBL’s motivation. Surely it’s a complex motivation b/ some of it is by his account follows. As we are moved by Gaza, Beirut was as dreadful (albeit not an open air prison for all)!

"The bombardment began and many were killed and injured and others were terrorized and displaced I couldn't forget those moving scenes, blood, and severed limbs, women and children sprawled everywhere.

Houses destroyed along with their occupants and high-rises demolished over their residents rockets raining down on our homes without mercy.

the situation was like a crocodile meeting a helpless child powerless except for his screams.

Does the crocodile understand a conversation that doesn't include a weapon?

And the whole world saw and heard but didn't respond. In those difficult moments, many hard-to-describe ideas bubbled in my soul, but in the end they produced an intense feeling of rejection of tyranny and gave birth to a strong resolve to punish the oppressors. And as I looked at those demolished towers in Lebanon, it entered my mind that we should punish the oppressor in kind and that we should destroy towers in America in order that they taste some of what we tasted and so that they be deterred from killing our women and children."

ABC News Transcript of UBL Video

Thank God that War w/ Iran was a bridge too far for Dubya though Cheney was game. Maybe Obama was in the pews after all for some of those Wright sermons and understands how to begin to break the cycle of violence.


Will : So, are the Israelis in your opinion, Asian or European?



Apoloies, but I am not an expert on the constitutions of British broadcasting channels.

The main private channel, ITV, is a collection of smaller companies - who are franchised for particular areas by the government - and by and large are not locked into great corporations in the way they are in the US. Murdoch has been trying to break into it for years without success.

I suggest you start on WIKi for the various channels and work from there.


read about the myths of Europa and Cadmus. They are not about ethnic cleansing b/ about conjoining.

To the Greeks, Asia was geography not race. As many Hellenes lived in Anatolia as the Pelopenese or Arcadia.

Read some Uri Avnery and some Israel Finklestein, the Bible Unearthed.

It's a pity the Zioncons don't consider themselves returning Canaanites but European settlers.


i couldn't find the archives. this goes under the war crimes post

MIDEAST: Alarm Spreads Over Use of Lethal New Weapons
By Erin Cunningham
(DIME explosives Tungsten)

Clifford Kiracofe

On the overall Israeli occupation of Palestine, there is an excellent documentary film from 2008. Faculty and students, among others, visiting SST might be interested.

Title: "Occupation 101"


In light of recent events, a student group concerned with Human Rights is screening it at Washington and Lee University tomorrow and has asked me to make the introduction.

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