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23 January 2009

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b

Prince Turki is issuing a warning:

Saudi patience is running out

Unless the new US administration takes forceful steps to prevent any further suffering and slaughter of Palestinians, the peace process, the US-Saudi relationship and the stability of the region are at risk.
...
Last week, President Mahmoud Ahmadi-Nejad of Iran wrote a letter to King Abdullah, explicitly recognising Saudi Arabia as the leader of the Arab and Muslim worlds and calling on him to take a more confrontational role over “this obvious atrocity and killing of your own children” in Gaza. The communiqué is significant because the de facto recognition of the kingdom’s primacy from one of its most ardent foes reveals the extent that the war has united an entire region, both Shia and Sunni. Further, Mr Ahmadi-Nejad’s call for Saudi Arabia to lead a jihad against Israel would, if pursued, create unprecedented chaos and bloodshed in the region.

So far, the kingdom has resisted these calls, but every day this restraint becomes more difficult to maintain. When Israel deliberately kills Palestinians, appropriates their lands, destroys their homes, uproots their farms and imposes an inhuman blockade on them; and as the world laments once again the suffering of the Palestinians, people of conscience from every corner of the world are clamouring for action. Eventually, the kingdom will not be able to prevent its citizens from joining the worldwide revolt against Israel.

Michael Torpey

Col.

Why do you think the graffiti in the film is written in English!

Why wouldn't it be written in Aribic or Hebrew.

Michael Chevalier

b:

Could you help us with a link for the letter from Ahamdi-Nejad to King Abdullah? I find that communication, if it is public and widely spread, to be a remarkable admission by Iran's president, regarding the Saudi role. Or would his letter be baiting, providing a canard for futher attacks on Saudi lack of conviction and action?

MCC

turcopolier

MT

They can't speak or read each other's languages.

Very few Israeilis can read Arabic beyond the level of street signs and the reverse is equally true. pl

b

Ahmadinejad's letter to Saudi Arabia

As all free men and nations have raised their voices in protest of the Zionist regime and the atrocities it is committing in Gaza, it is expected of you as the Saudi Arabian King and the Custodian of the Two Holy Places, i.e Makkah and Medina, to break your silence on the catastrophic events and the massacre taking place in Gaza and take a clear stance on the murder of your children, who are dear to the Islamic Ummah.

mo

Michael,
In case b doesn't come back or is otherwise engaged he provided this link on his own blog:

http://www.presstv.ir/detail.aspx?id=82432&sectionid=3510304

I think it is neither admission nor canard. It is, as I read it a very clever piece of diplomacy- although after 8 years of Bush and seemingly more of the same from Obama we can be forgiven for forgetting what that is.

It is as I read it an invitation not only to join the other side but it is saying if you join us you can be boss.

It is clever because it puts the Saudis in such a tough position - it forces them to start talking tough to the US, saying help us to help you or we leave.

Only the Iranians could have invented chess.

J

Colonel,

What I worry about is Obama being his own man and doing what is best for the U.S., not for Israel. With 'gatekeepers' like Israel-firster Rahm Emanuel as Obama's COS, individuals like Emanuel will prevent President Obama from getting the 'full picture' and doing 'what is best for the U.S.'.

Obama really needs to jettison his 'Israel-firsters' i.e. Emanuel, Axelrod from his administration. If he did, he also would have a large and angry backlash from AIPAC and other assorted Israeli government 'store-front' organizations posing as 'grass-roots'. But Obama was elected to do what is best for the U.S., NOT what is best for Israel. Our nation's forefather 'warned' about 'foreign entanglements' like what [Israeli serpent] has ensnared the U.S.

WILL

from FT

"Saudi patience is running out
By Turki al-Faisal
Published: January 22 2009 20:15 | Last updated: January 22 2009 20:15"

.....

"Last week, President Mahmoud Ahmadi-Nejad of Iran wrote a letter to King Abdullah, explicitly recognising Saudi Arabia as the leader of the Arab and Muslim worlds and calling on him to take a more confrontational role over “this obvious atrocity and killing of your own children” in Gaza."

....

"Prince Turki is chairman, King Faisal Centre for Research and Islamic Studies, Riyadh. He has been director of Saudi intelligence, ambassador to the UK and Ireland and ambassador to the US

....

Copyright The Financial Times Limited 2009"

This is what Al-Turki says Mahmoud Ahmadi-Nejad says.

All this is consistent with Israel's Iron Wall Policy that Professor John Mearsheimer writes about in the American Conservative.

Matthew

Col: Can you help us differentiate the level of "noise" from real analysis? How can we tell the difference between real outrage among the Saudis and how much is glorified CYA now that Hamas has survived. I seem to recall that the Saudis reacted the same way in 2006.

Moreover, Turki represents a much less pro-American faction of the Saudi royals, right?

Please advise.

Clifford Kiracofe

The flattened village scenes, desecrated graveyards, destroyed mosque, etc. in the clip were noteworthy indicating a genocidal intent it would seem.

As for US policy,

"A senior member of the Saudi ruling family, Prince Turki al-Faisal, said Bush had left "a sickening legacy" in the Middle East and had contributed through arrogance to Israel's slaughter of innocent people in Gaza over the past month.

"If the United States wants to continue playing a leadership role in the Middle East and keep its strategic alliances intact ... it will have to revise drastically its policies vis a vis Israel and Palestine," he added."

http://uk.reuters.com/article/worldNews/
idUKTRE50M4MT20090123?pageNumber=2&virtualBrandChannel=0

Rather than telephone the local dwarfs in the ME, Obama could as an opener have phoned key allies in Europe such as the UK and Germany, major powers like Russia and China, and a key regional player such as India.

But no, out of the gate,

1. he fell into the usual Israel-centric, Middle East morass and adopted some boiler plate "pro-Israel" discourse not differing markedly from Bush43.

2. Continued the flight forward into the Afghanistan quagmire.


There is a narrow window for President Obama to indicate real change rather than cosmetics and business as usual. The Hollywood style media hype about Mitchell and Holbrooke is a bit much; the world will be looking for concrete results.

johnf

Michael Chevalier

Financial Times address quoted by b:

http://tinyurl.com/c7qxet

johnf

Also quoted on b's blog:

http://tinyurl.com/btv683

"The doctor was interrupted by a phone call from a farmer who wanted to know whether it was safe to eat the oranges he was collecting from groves that had been uprooted and bombed during the Israeli invasion. The caller said the oranges had an offensive odor and that when the workers picked them up their hands became itchy.
Audrey Stewart had just spent the morning with Gazan farmers in Tufaa, a village near the border between Gaza and Israel. Israeli soldiers had first evacuated people, then dynamited the houses, then used bulldozers to clear the land, uprooting the orange tree groves. Many people, including children, were picking through the rubble, salvaging belongings and trying to collect oranges. At one point, people began shouting at Audrey, warning her that she was standing next to an unexploded rocket.

The doctor put his head in his hands, after listening to Audrey's report. "I told them to wash everything very carefully. But these are new situations. Really, I don't know how to respond," he said."

http://www.counterpunch.org/kelly01222009.html

Sidney O. Smith III

According to the Satmar rabbis, Zionists are neither Jewish nor American. They are ethnic nationalists. This remarkable news video gives much credence to the Satmar view.

Regardless , it just seems to me that the spirit underlying the collective actions of the GOI and IDF in Gaza are much like that which motivated the (Christian) Lusignan and his co-conspirator Raynald of Chatillon in the film Kingdom of Heaven.

Such is the underlying reality, no?

It is what it is, at least metaphorically and artistically speaking, of course.

Ormolov

Clifford Kiracofe wrote:
"There is a narrow window for President Obama to indicate real change rather than cosmetics and business as usual. The Hollywood style media hype about Mitchell and Holbrooke is a bit much; the world will be looking for concrete results."

Too true. I was also disappointed by that press conference. I've seen a number of people write him off, taking this first signal as the last word.

But I won't do that quite yet. Sure, I'm a softheaded liberal clinging to unrealistic hopes, but the only insight I've heard regarding Obama's personal feelings about the Middle East are from an underreported 2007 campaign stop, where he told a number of people that if elected, his first international trip would be to Indonesia, where he would address the Muslim world (in Indonesian! in the largest Muslim country in the world!) and change the dialogue between East and West. If this doesn't happen, I will deflate like a balloon. But since this is still the first week of the new administration, I'll reserve judgment.

WILL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Mearsheimer " rel="nofollow">Professsor John Mearsheimer of the University of Chicago made his mark in the study of International relations before teaming up with Professor Stephen Walt of Harvard in their seminal study of AIPAC.
The_Israel_Lobby_and_U.S._Foreign_Policy a New York Times Best Seller.
Professor Stephen Walt

http://www.amconmag.com/article/2009/jan/26/00006/" rel="nofollow">Another War, Another Defeat , By John J. Mearsheimer The Gaza offensive has succeeded in punishing the Palestinians but not in making Israel more secure

....
The campaign in Gaza is said to have two objectives: 1) to put an end to the rockets and mortars .... withdrew from Gaza in August 2005; 2) to restore .. deterrent, ...Lebanon fiasco, by Israel’s withdrawal from Gaza, and by ..Iran’s nuclear program.

But these are not the real goals of Operation Cast Lead.

The actual purpose is connected to Israel’s long-term vision of how it intends to live with millions of Palestinians in its midst.

It is part of a broader strategic goal: the creation of a “Greater Israel.”

Specifically, Israel’s leaders remain determined to control all of what used to be known as Mandate Palestine, which includes Gaza and the West Bank.

The Palestinians would have limited autonomy in a handful of disconnected and economically crippled enclaves, one of which is Gaza. Israel would control the borders around them, movement between them, the air above and the water below them.

....
"Israelis and their American supporters claim that Israel learned its lessons well from the disastrous 2006 Lebanon war and has devised a winning strategy for the present war against Hamas. Of course, when a ceasefire comes, Israel will declare victory.

Don’t believe it. Israel has foolishly started another war it cannot win.

The campaign in Gaza is said to have two objectives: 1) to put an end to the rockets and mortars that Palestinians have been firing into southern Israel since it withdrew from Gaza in August 2005; 2) to restore Israel’s deterrent, which was said to be diminished by the Lebanon fiasco, by Israel’s withdrawal from Gaza, and by its inability to halt Iran’s nuclear program.

But these are not the real goals of Operation Cast Lead. The actual purpose is connected to Israel’s long-term vision of how it intends to live with millions of Palestinians in its midst. It is part of a broader strategic goal: the creation of a “Greater Israel.”

"Specifically, Israel’s leaders remain determined to control all of what used to be known as Mandate Palestine, which includes Gaza and the West Bank. The Palestinians would have limited autonomy in a handful of disconnected and economically crippled enclaves, one of which is Gaza. Israel would control the borders around them, movement between them, the air above and the water below them.

"The key to achieving this is to inflict massive pain on the Palestinians so that they come to accept the fact that they are a defeated people and that Israel will be largely responsible for controlling their future.

"This strategy, which was first articulated by Ze’ev Jabotinsky in the 1920s and has heavily influenced Israeli policy since 1948, is commonly referred to as the “Iron Wall.”

"What has been happening in Gaza is fully consistent with this strategy.

"Let’s begin with Israel’s decision to withdraw from Gaza in 2005. The conventional wisdom is that Israel was serious about making peace with the Palestinians and that its leaders hoped the exit from Gaza would be a major step toward creating a viable Palestinian state.

According to the New York Times’ Thomas L. Friedman, Israel was giving the Palestinians an opportunity to “build a decent mini-state there—a Dubai on the Mediterranean,” and if they did so, it would “fundamentally reshape the Israeli debate about whether the Palestinians can be handed most of the West Bank.”

"This is pure fiction. Even before Hamas came to power, the Israelis intended to create an open-air prison for the Palestinians in Gaza and inflict great pain on them until they complied with Israel’s wishes.

Dov Weisglass, Ariel Sharon’s closest adviser at the time, candidly stated that the disengagement from Gaza was aimed at halting the peace process, not encouraging it. He described the disengagement as “formaldehyde that’s necessary so that there will not be a political process with the Palestinians.” Moreover, he emphasized that the withdrawal “places the Palestinians under tremendous pressure. It forces them into a corner where they hate to be.”

Arnon Soffer, a prominent Israeli demographer who also advised Sharon, elaborated on what that pressure would look like. “When 2.5 million people live in a closed-off Gaza, it’s going to be a human catastrophe. Those people will become even bigger animals than they are today, with the aid of an insane fundamentalist Islam. The pressure at the border will be awful. It’s going to be a terrible war. So, if we want to remain alive, we will have to kill and kill and kill. All day, every day.”"

Clifford Kiracofe

Ormolov,

Most interesting about Indonesia, I very much hope he does just that!

I am not writing the President off yet by any means and will not until I see the results of all four years of his first term. I want him to be a success and I voted for him and donated to his campaign.

But I do intend to oppose on a daily basis those forces -- Zionists, Neocons, assorted loonies, whomever -- who would undermine his presidency and betray our Republic.

Cheney-Bush and the Israelis, among others, have laid some time bombs for President Obama and our Nation. Gaza is an example.

As President Obama starts to interact personally and directly with world leaders, I belive he will get his sea legs and be in a position to guide our ship of state with realism (and some idealism) placing, as Jefferson said, Hope out front and Fear astern.


curious

Future historian will look at DC politics and wonder why Aipac is getting that much space in national politics.

WILL

@Curious
"Future historian will look at DC politics and wonder why Aipac is getting that much space in national politics."

At the recent lambchop dinner w/ conservative columnists at neocon George Will's house, among the handful these were Jewish-Americans: Bill Kristol, C. Krauthammer, & David Brooks.

I am not bothered by Axlerod or Rahm (he was there at Oslo) b/c they are moderates.

Jewish Americans will always dominate b/c one of every four Americans w/ an IQ of over 140 is a Jewish American.

But there's always hope that the majority will eventually see the light about AIPAC. For example, there's the Seinfeld actor Jason Alexander and the string theorist Edward Witten.

And the good Rabbi whose post was copied here.

Mark

The video seems to show that Israeli actions don't comport with their words. I'm beginning to wonder if the Israeli's really are all that good at security; anyone over twelve years old can tell you that the widespread, systemic, organized mistreatment (atrocities?) being reported about the Gaza incursion are not in Israel's long-term best interests, no matter how good it must have felt to the IDF at the time. Or maybe Israel has another, unspoken plan altogether?

zanzibar

Why is it that British media (who I believe is responsible for this segment) which is also by and large corporate owned can present such a viewpoint but US media will never take such a position?

What are key differences in the DNA?

RB

It seems that the Israelis operate under the hypothesis that the Palestinians can be brought to heel by the use of force. Therefore if the Palestinians do not, it is because not enough force was applied. So more force and devastation are applied and the cycle continues and will continue for the foreseeable future.
I don’t mean to be pessimistic but bulldozing houses for no clear military purpose will lead to no good.

Solitudinem fecerunt, pacem appelunt.

Will

i had picked up John Mearsheimer'sarticle by a Google alert but Juan Cole also has a piece on it at Informed Consent as well comments on others on a similar vein.

@Mark. Yes they have a secret plan, to wit: The Iron Wall Plan.

I picked up some simpler html code from MOB b's site, let's see if it works here.

Link to mearsheimer-on-gaza.html at Professor Juan Cole blog

eakens

"Jewish Americans will always dominate b/c one of every four Americans w/ an IQ of over 140 is a Jewish American."

So 1 in 10 Jewish Americans are geniuses? That is what your statistic implies if you accept that 99.5% of the US population has an IQ of less than 140.

All this genius talk reminds me of the Walt Whitman line about the genius of the US. "The genius of the United States is not best or most in its executives or legislatures, nor in its ambassadors or authors or colleges, or churches, or parlors, nor even in its newspapers or inventors, but always most in the common people."


Will

@eakens

it's not all academic, or it could be if you look at enrollent figures for major universities.
(about 30% at Harvard, even 15% at Duke)


13 senators, 43 representatives, both senators from CA, either contested senator from MN, take your pick, Coleman or Franken (the Boschwitz seat), the gov and a senator from PN, then the wealth statistics from Sociologist James Petras' book

Power of Israel in the United States Petras has put his views in a book on this topic. He puts forth the thesis that American Jewry are less than 2% of the population, yet represent 25-30% of U.S.'s wealthiest families (citing Forbes). He asserts that they wield their wealth effectively. As an example(citing Richard Cohen in the Washington Post) -- supplying 60% and 35% of the total contributions respectively of the American Democratic and Republican political parties. Petras maintains that little public discussion is allowed about this financial power.

No fancy statistical razzle dazzle, just facts. Explain it by the power of Freidrich Guass's Bell Curve, or Appolorian/ Mercurian Theory or whatever conceptual framework pleases you.

Unique, not hardly, the overseas Chinese in the Philippines and Southeast Asia, the Lebanese in Africa and the Americas. (hint: Who has just rescued the NY Times?)

What is unique is AIPAC and its raw use of its power to run the US into the ground!


Will

@eakens

I misapprehended your remark. There are many different kinds of intellinges of course. Emotional, Spatial, Mechanical, Verbal, Empathic, and so on.

Whitman was talking about a special kind.

For interest, Native Americans & Asians, if I recall correctly, are ahead in spatial IQ.

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